LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.04 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  04 January 2008 - Volume 06
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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Beste Elsie,

You wrote:

It fascinates me that Afrikaans does not seem to have a cognate of

the *Indo-European: ***leudh-* 'to go freely', 'to grow'** > *leudho *
'people'.


The word could be hidden in your first, second or third person plural: wij,
jullie or zij (in Dutch);
which in Brabantish, is "wij-lie(den)", "gij-lie(den)" and "zij-lie(den)".

Not sure if lie(den) (or lui) was ever used in Brabantish as a separate
word. "Vollek" (< volk) on the other hand is very popular (sic).

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: Kevin Caldwell <kevin.caldwell1963 at verizon.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.04 (03) [E]

English does have a related set of words, in an ecclesiastical context:
laity, laic/laical, lay. But those are more directly from Greek (by way of
Latin and French) and not native English.

Kevin Caldwell

>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Etymology
>
>By the way, for some strange reason the cognate word for "people" (Old
English lÃ(c)ode, Old Northumbrian líoda) seems to have disappeared from
English and Scots also. In English, it disappeared at the end of the Middle
English period (e.g., Fra hys kyn till ane wncouth lede, Wintoun Chronicles,
1425). In Scots it held on to the early modern stage (e.g., For thai me hayt
mar na Sotheroun leid, Henry Wallace, 1714).
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.04 (03) [E]

From: R. F. Hahn < sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

By the way, for some strange reason the cognate word for "people" (Old
English *léode*, Old Northumbrian
*líoda*) seems to have disappeared from English and Scots also. In English,
it disappeared at the end of the Middle English period ( e.g., *Fra hys kyn
till ane wncouth lede*, Wintoun Chronicles, 1425). In Scots it held on to
the early modern stage (e.g., *For thai me hayt mar na Sotheroun leid*,
Henry Wallace, 1714).

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

I guess we had (and retained) "folc" in various forms, and borrowed the
French "people" as a synonym.  Maybe "lede" just got redundant?  I don't
know if Norse had any "lede"-like word, but they did have "folk"; if English
settles on a Germanic word it is often an Old English one reinforced by
Norse.  For example we use "tree" rather than "beam" because ON and OE had a
version of the former.  Beam now only survives as a special meaning, and in
tree names like Hornbeam.
Paul Finlow-Bates

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From: Diederik Masure <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.04 (03) [E]

Lid/lede(n) is not related. I am not sure if it is related to English lid?
Or Norwegian led(d)...
Apart from lui, Dutch also knows (orig. Southern forms) with -ie-, in
standard language however generally 'lieden' is higher and lui is slightly
more vulgar.
I'm not sure if lieden/lui is still used over here, apart from the plural
pers. pronouns (wijlie, gijlie, zullie etc). In Holland (excuse me, the
Netherlands) 'lui' for 'mensen' seems to be quite popular though, at least
in more oral forms of the language. (or in diminutive luitjes).

Professions ending in -man take (officially) plurals in -lui or -lieden. 1
koopman, meerdere kooplieden (/kooplui), brandweerman, brandweerlieden/lui.
To me it doesn't sound strange saying "timmermannen" or "brandweermannen"
though. But you're not allowed to write it anyway:) [and usually the latter
are called "pompiers" [pOm'pI.jrs] in these districts anyway]

And I just noticed that apparently Dutch is the only Germanic/W.European
language that does not use the latin word "muscle" but "spier". Anyone knows
other Germanic languages that use a more "original" word?

Diederik
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