LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.04 (08) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  04 January 2008 - Volume 08
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From: Marcel Bas <roepstem at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.04 (03) [E]

Hi Elsie,

You wondered:

Hi all,

It fascinates me that Afrikaans does not seem to have a cognate of

the *Indo-European: ***leudh-* 'to go freely', 'to grow'** > *leudho *
'people'.

Are A. lid / lede (member/s) perhaps related?

Lid/lede is not related (this goes back to IE **elei *'to bend'). There are
some cognates of **leudh- *in Afrikaans, though.

 - *julle *'second person plural' < *je + lie(-den). *The shift from *luuden
* to *lieden* is considered Flemish. So Afrikaans 'julle' and Dutch 'jullie'
means 'you people'.

-  *hulle* 3rd person plural = *hun +lie(den*)*. *So Afrikaans 'hulle' and
dialectic Dutch 'hulle'* *means 'them people'.

- *luier* 'diaper' (but Afrikaans speakers usually refer to 'diapers' as
'doeke').  Some etymologists think that '*luier* ' derives from this same
root **leudh-*, particularly when it means 'to grow'. So the baby grows
inside the diaper.

Best regards,

Marcel.

----------

From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.03 (05) [E

>Dialect: East Frisian of the Isle of Wangerooge (Germany, extinct 1950)
>Author: (unknown)
>Source: Recording of 1927
>
>Miin Oopel weer 'n fariinsmon, dee wunnet up Wangerooch. Dait weer nuu wail
soo uum 't Jeer achtiinhunnert threttiin, fjirtiin. Wii haiden Kriich mit de
Fransoozen, un de Engelsen weeren up 'e Oostsee. Daa lai eenes Diis miin
Oopel mit siin Schip in de Wiizder far Anker. Dee must hooch Watter auftaiw,
un hii un siin Liuud haiden jam dilleliin too slaipen.
>
>My translation:
>My granddad was a mariner, and he lived on Wangerooge. It must have been
around the year eighteen hundred and thirteen, fourteen. We were at war with
the French, and the English were on the Baltic Sea. One day my granddad was
lying at anchor on the Weser River. He had to wait for high tide, and he and
his crew had lain down to sleep.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn < sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hi, Kevin!

There was a time when I suspected this was a loanword, too. But apparently
it is a cognate related to words throughout Indo-European, generally meaning
"(common) people", "belonging to the common people", "masses"; e.g.

*Indo-European: ***leudh-* 'to go freely', 'to grow'** > *leudho *'people'
(* e.g. Low Saxon > German *Lode* 'shoot', 'growth')

*Germanic: ***leudi(z)*
Gothic: *leuda*
Norse: *ljōðr*, *lýðr*
English: *lēode* > ?
Frisian: *liōd(e) * > *loai*

loai = lazy, not people. (or are they synomomous :) ?)

The right word in Westerlauwer Frisian is "lju", Hindeloopen dialect
(Hylpersk) "lie". etc.
Also, the Saterlandic (the only modern relic of the East Frisian language
family (that Wangerooge also belonged to)
has "Ljude", and West and East Frisian preserve the old Frisian rising
diphthong in words from Germanic "eu" ,e.g.
"Ljoof" (<Lia:f in Old Frisian, Modern Dutch "lief", Low Saxon "leef",
"leif" ,"laif" etc.), "fjoer" for "fire" is another such example.

Saxon: *liud(i)* > *liude, liue, luide, luie, lui, lüde, lüüd', lüe, lü*, *
lied*, etc.
Dutch: **luude, luyde*, *luye,* etc.* > lui*
German: *liut(i) * > *Leute*

*Greek: *n. *λα̑ός (**lāós)*, adj. *λαι̑κος (laīkos)*

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron


Regards,

Henno
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