LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.29 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  29 January 2008 - Volume 01
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.28 (07) [E]

And in Low Saxon of the Netherlands, "keerl" is more or less just an
equivalent of the word "man". In Dutch, there's "kerel" but its usage is
more specialised, but not necessarily in a negative sense. "Vent" is used
more or less in the same way in Dutch, but is slightly more negative, and
used more in the South, I think.

Ingmar

Reinhard schreef:
"As for derogatory versus non-derogatory mentioned by Diederik just now,
there's what seems to be the male counterpart. In German, *Kerl* tends to
be
meant in a derogatory sense, unless it's in the clear context of "strong,"
"strapping," etc., or in rare expressions like *netter Kerl* 'nice guy'.

In Low Saxon of Germany, *keyrl* (*Keerl ~ Kierl*) does not by default
sound negative but can be made to come across that way."

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Ingmar:

And in Low Saxon of the Netherlands, "keerl" is more or less just an
equivalent of the word "man".

This is how it is in many or most Low Saxon dialects on the German side as
well.

It's pretty much like "guy" in in many current English dialects, or "fella"
in older ones.

Which (for some strange reason) reminds me of Scots *gadgie* (['gadʒi],
['gadZi]), one of several words for "man" or "guy." It's derived from Romani
(Romany, probably *Romnichal jip*) गाजो *gaje ~ gajo ~ gadjo* etc., feminine
गाजी *gaji ~ gadji*, adjectival गाजिकाने *gajikane, gadjikane* etc., with
reference to non-Roma (non-"Gypsy") people, in many Romani dialects also
'peasant'. Strictly speaking, it refers to a person without रोमानीपे *
Romanipe* ("Roma/Gypsy" soul/spirit), which can include people of Roma
descent that are regarded as having lost it, in other words, people deemed
assimilated to the general population.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Maria Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.28 (05) [E]

Hi all

Gary, the Afrikaans form 'wyf' is now only used in a pejorative sense as in:
Die vrou skreeu soos 'n viswyf. (The woman yells like a fishwife.)

Wyfie is occasionally used in the sense of 'little wife", which I find
patriarchal, although I hear it is inherently innocent. (Like 'chick' I
suppose).

The female animal form is also called 'wyfie' in Afrikaans. (Die
wyfie knopiespinnekop maak die mannetjie dood na paring).

Elsie Zinsser

From: Gary Davenport <gldavenport at student.ysu.edu>
Subject: Etymology -- Wife
Dear Lowlanders:
I am interested in the use of cognates of the the English word *wife* in the
Germanic languages, Lowlands here specifically. For instance, German retains
*Weib, *while Dutch retains ***jf* (a pejorative if I understand correctly)
and the OED2 lists cognates for O. Frisian and O. Saxon (*wif*). I haven't
found any data on modern Frisian, Plattdeutsch, or other Lowlandic cognates
or usage, however.

Whatare your personal experiences with it? Do you use it in your
languageeveryday? Or only archaically or poetically? What connotation does
itcarry?

With regards,
Gary

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From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.28 (07) [E]

Goeie!,

Westerlauwer Frisian has "wiif", pl. "wiven". Most North Frisian
varieties have "wüf" (< wi:f as well, with typical shortening and very
common rounding in this word). The older (before WW2) usage was indeed
"wife, spouse", and also in a negative sense (âld wiif).
Nowadays only the second meaning really persists. The diminuative
"wyfke" is used for female animals and endearingly.
Nowadays people don't say "myn wiif" but "myn frou" (like Dutch "mijn
vrouw").
I'm not sure about the usage in North Frisian and East Frisian
(Saterlandic also has a cognate, either "Wieuw" or "Wief", I don't
recall).

Henno
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