LL-L "What does it mean?" 2008.06.03 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 03 June 2008 - Volume 02
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From: Soenke Dibbern <s_dibbern at web.de>
Subject: LL-L "What does it mean?" 2008.06.02 (08) [E]

Op'n Di., den 03. Jun.'08, hett Douglas G. Wilson dit Klock 05.13 schreven:

 From: Douglas G. Wilson <douglas at nb.net>
> Subject: LL-L "What does it mean?" 2008.06.02 (03) [E]
>
>  "vynde boddeme maket vynde gut unde vynde gut maket vynde boddeme"
>> vynde:   1. winds
>>         2. enemies
>> boddeme: 1. the bottom(s) of a of ship
>>         2. (a) special type of ship(s)
>>         3. (a) shallow part(s) of the sea, near the coast, in
>>            special used in the Baltic Sea
>> maket:   make (3rd pers. sing/pl)
>> gut:     good
>> unde:    and
>>
>> Who is able to solve this conundrum?
>>
>
> Probably not I, since I am ignorant of Low Saxon.
>
> I would guess:
>
> "vynde" = "enemy" (or "devil") (cf. German "Feind")
>
> "boddeme" = "[cargo] ship" (cf. English "bottom" = "[cargo] ship")
>
> "gut" = "cargo" (cf. English "goods", German "Gueter")
>
> Then the aphorism might mean something like "Bad ship, bad cargo; bad
> cargo, bad ship" or so, where "bad" could be either "evil" or "enemy". Exact
> application not obvious to me.
>
> Just a guess.
>
> But it's looking like a good guess after all. Compare this, from Thomas
> Jefferson (1793):
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=Q7yp1S0B9lgC&pg=PA282&dq=%22enemy+bottoms%22&lr=&num=100&as_brr=0
>
> <<On the contrary, we suppose it to have been long an established principle
> of the law of nations, that the goods of a friend are free in an enemy's
> vessel, and an enemy's goods lawful prize in the vessel of a friend. The
> inconvenience of this principle, which subjects merchant vessels to be
> stopped at sea, searched, ransacked, led out of their course, has induced
> several nations latterly to stipulate against - it by treaty, and to
> substitute another in its stead, that _free bottoms shall make free goods,
> and enemy bottoms enemy goods,_ a rule equal to the other in point of loss
> and gain, but less oppressive to commerce.>>
>

So the sequence would mean "Enemy ship makes enemy goods, and enemy goods
make enemy ships" or - a bit more elaborated - "An enemy ship makes the
goods in it the enemy's [and therefore confiscable], and enemy goods in a
ship make the ship in whole the enemy's [which points back to the first part
- all goods in the ship get confiscable]".

This is a very lucrative rule (to say the least) compared to Jefferson's new
and old one. By his old rule you were neither entitled to take all stuff in
an enemy's vessel nor to take all stuff if a (neutral) ship transported
enemy goods. By his proposed new rule, you wouldn't be entitled to
confiscate any goods in a (neutral) ship that transported (also) enemy
goods.

Looks like the hansa league wasn't that "hanseaatsch" (demure) when it came
to ransacking "suspicious" ships. ;-)

Regards,
Sönke

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: What does it mean?

What you said makes a lot more sense to me, Sönke.

This thing about "wind" was definitely off, if alone for the reason that I
have never seen "wind" spelled with a "v". In Middle Saxon it is always
either *wynd* or *wind*. The "v" was pronounced as [f] (if not as what our
Dutch friends claim they say when they spell "v").

So, *vynd* is a cognate of English "fiend", and it means either "enemy" or
"devil", as you mentioned. ("De vynd" means "the devil" or "Satan".)

 Looks like the hansa league wasn't that "hanseaatsch" (demure) when it came
to ransacking "suspicious" ships. ;-)

It's interesting, though, that the Hanseatic Trading League began as defense
alliance guarding against pirates and wreckers.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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