LL-L "Culture" 2008.06.30 (08) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  - 30 June 2008 - Volume 08
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From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>
Subject: LL-L "Culture" 2008.06.30 (03) [E]

From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de <mailto:jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>>
- Hide quoted text -

Subject: LL-L "Culture" 2008.06.29 (04) [E]

Beste Marcus,
 in your last posting you quoted Ina Müller:
 > I actually think it is hip at the moment to boost cult icons. For example
the FC St. Pauli [local soccer club of Hamburg which has a devoted
> followership that tries to stand off the more mainstream Hamburger SV].
Their T-shirts with the skulls and bones are a hit even in Denmark.
> Or look at the band Fettes Brot. In their age group they are cult just
like the comic character Werner Beinhart for the older ones is. And Low >
Saxon too is in this category. That's shown by the popularity of our shows.
It's got a drive of it's own. Maybe cause it feels younger and more >
 modern with us. Even the Ohnsorg-Theater is playing more modern plays now.
 But the interview went on:
 *(quote)*
_Question of the interviewer:_ "Der globalisierte Mensch auf der Suche nach
einer Heimat oder einer Abgrenzung?"["The globalized people looking for a
home or distinction?"]
 _Answer of Mr. Dibaba:_ "So hoch würde ich das nicht hängen. Vielleicht ist
es auch nur ganz schlicht ein Trend, mit dem sich gut Geld verdienen lässt."
['I wouldn't overprice it. Perhaps it is just a trend to earn good money."]
*(unquote)*
 And that's it where 'our' Ina Müller is really capable- I have no doubt
about it!
But some doubts are coming when I hear her words imply that she grew up with
LS as her main language- she is born A.D 1965, and then even in Köhlen (a
village near Bremerhaven, Germany) people normally could speak Standard
German ;-)... Maybe she grew up within a mixture of LS and Northern German
dialect and just was unable to learn both languages:
 *(quote)*
_Question:_
Auffällig bei Ihnen beiden ist, dass Sie ausgerechnet mit einer Sprache
Karriere machen, die eigentlich als Karrierekiller gilt. Oder haben Sie
andere Erfahrungen gemacht? [For both of you it is noticeable that you made
your carreers with a language looked upon as a carreer killer. Or did you
make different experiences?]

_Answer of Mrs. Müller:_

Nicht wirklich. Als ich damals an die Schule im nächsten größeren Ort
_wechselte_, da war es für uns nach Kuhstall _stinkenden_ Dörfler, mit
Plattdeutsch _geschlagen_, nicht wirklich lustig. Das ist kein Vorwurf an
meine Eltern, um das gleich zu sagen, denen war es einfach egal, ob ihre
Kinder Plattdeutsch oder Hochdeutsch sprachen. Die haben über so etwas gar
nicht nachgedacht. Aber für ein Kind ist es schwierig, _plötzlich_ Worte in
einer Sprache zu schreiben, die _total fremd_ ist. Ein Albtraum. [Not
really. When I changed to a school in the neighboured bigger village, it
wasn't pleasant at all for us 'rednecks' with the smell of cow stables,
beaten with Low Saxon. I don't want to blame my parents ...; they didn't
mind us to talk either Low Saxon or Standard German. They didn't make any
thoughts about this. But for a child it is really difficult to write
abruptly in a totally strange language. A nightmare.]

*(unquote)*

Vulgar, stupid and with some inconsistency, for my humble opinion.
 Once again Low Saxon gets moved into the 'Schmuddelecke' ['figurative place
for all that is considered dirty and taboo']. Or, not better but sounding
less cruel: Low Saxon just as a medium for 'Volksbelustigung' ['to make
people laugh']!?
But perhaps this curious and not at all new trend really will help to renew
Low Saxon in a very special way- "Geld regiert die Welt" ("money rules the
world")...
 Meanwhile I don't care about this any longer.
 Allerbest!
 Jonny Meibohm

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com <mailto:sassisch at yahoo.com>>

Subject: Etymology
>
> Thanks, Jonny. I'm rather inclined to agree with your sentiments on the
> whole.
>
> I'm not in the business of trashing people, and I don't really know very
> much about Ina Müller. However, I do know that an important part of her
> shtik is abrasive, sharp-tongued, irreverent humor with strong feminist
> overtones, sometimes spoofing "proper ladies." That's all fine and dandy,
> and I approve of well-placed irreverent humor as long as it is not
> mean-spirited and is not merely a put-on twist for cornering a commercial
> market.
>
> Aside from what you wrote, Jonny, the interview left a weird taste in my
> mouth with regard to Ina, a co-interviewee, sometimes taking on the
> interviewer's role by asking Yared questions and then making what seem like
> value judgments about his responses on top of it.
>
> Ina Müller:
> Moment, bevor Du weiter erzählst, wenn ich reinkomme und sage, Moin, Moin,
> dann sagst Du ...?
> Just a sec. Before you go on ... When I enter and say, "Moin, moin," you
> say ...?
>
> Dibaba:
> Atam!
> "Atam!"
>
> (I would have said, "Moin, moin!" if I were him.)
>
> Müller:
> Komisches Wort. Atam hört sich für mich nach Attacke an: Atam, Atam! Moin,
> moin ist viel schöner, runder.
> Weird word. "Atam" sounds like an attack: "Atam, Atam!" "Moin, moin" is
> much more beautiful, rounder.
>
> And the point is ...? What does this value judgment have to do with the
> price of tea in China? "My language is prettier than yours"? In my opinion,
> these interjections are inappropriate and aggressive and don't exactly come
> across as informed. The introduction to the interview talks about Yared
> Dibaba being used to dealing with "strong women" next to him at work and
> being able to hold his own. I have no problem whatsoever with "strong women"
> as long as they know what they are talking about and don't act the fool.
>
> Dibaba:
> Und? Was willst Du uns damit sagen?
> So? What is it you're trying to say?
>
> Müller:
> Dass Moin sich schöner anhört, mehr nicht. ...
> That "Moin" sounds nicer. That's all. ...
>
> Good for him!
>
> Müller:
> Die Kombination ist aber auch zu nett: Ein Schwarzer, der im Norden eine
> Sendung moderiert, die "Die Welt op Platt" heißt.
> The combination is totally cute: a black man moderating a northern program
> called "Die Welt op Platt" ...
>
> No one asked you, Ina! Leave it to the readers to deal with their own
> prejudicial takes!
>
> Yared, who belongs to an Oromo refugee family from Ethiopia, talks about
> challenges he faced in school, and Ina butts in again ...
>
> Müller:
> Du Armer! Und dann mit diesem Sprachengewirr. Das war aber auch ganz schön
> gemein von Deinen Eltern, Dich überall hinzuschleppen und diesem
> Sprachen-Babylon auszusetzen. ...
> You poor thing! And then this language jumble on top of it! It was totally
> mean of your parents to drag you all over and expose you to this Bable
> situation. ...
>
> Asked if he uses Low Saxon in everyday life ...
>
> Dibaba:
> In Hamburg macht das kaum noch jemand. Außerdem ist meine Frau Portugiesin,
> mein ältester Sohn kommt auf eine deutsche Schule, und wenn ich meine Leute
> treffe, dann sprechen wir Oromo. Plattdeutsch brauche ich tatsächlich fast
> nur noch fürs Fernsehen. Aber Du träumst doch wahrscheinlich sogar auf
> Platt, oder, Ina?
> Hardly anybody does so in Hamburg these days. Besides, my wife is
> Portuguese, my oldest son is going to go to a German-speaking school, and I
> speak Oromo when I get together with my people. I use Low Saxon mostly on TV
> these days. I take it you dream in Low Saxon, Ina. Or?
>
> Müller:
> Stimmt. Vor allem aber denke ich auf Platt. Ich bin schließlich eine Frau.
> That's right. But most importantly, I /think /in Low Saxon. I'm a woman,
> after all.
>
> (Excuse me?! Perhaps she should stop making fun of ditsy women, unless she
> means to include herself.)
>
> Dibaba:
> Wie konnte ich vergessen: Ich denke nicht, also bin ich Mann. Danke für den
> Hinweis.
> How could I have forgotten that? I don't think; so me man. Thanks for the
> hint.
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
>
Well, it's rather simple. Ina Müller doesn't care about "political correct
and diplomatic talk". She just say's what she's feeling. Saying "'Moin Moin'
sounds nicer than 'Aram'" maybe is not politically correct and not
linguistically justifiable, cause every language is a system of its own with
very own rules about what words sound like attacks and which do not. But
Müller is not a linguist and not the secretary general of the United
Nations. There's no need for talking diplomatic. She just said what the word
sounded like for her. When she talks about "nach Kuhstall _stinkende_
Dörfler", she does not say she thinks so, but that she felt treated like
that.

Ina's humor indeed is sharp-tongued and she doesn't mince matters ("nimmt
kein Blatt vor den Mund"), but she really is not abrasive or irreverent.
Have you ever seen "Land und Liebe" or "Inas Nacht"? She does not hesitate
to give somebody a bonk on the nose ("jemanden einen Nasenstüber
versetzen"), but she really does not put down anybody.

She is honest and "free rut". I like her for that, cause many people say
nice words all day long, but don't care about their words. Ina does not try
to be everbody's darling by uttering nice words. She just tries to be
herself, no stuccoed facade, just Northern German brick.
That's a typical villager feature in my opinion. Villagers don't know
"Grootsnutigkeit" (boastfullyness) and "Glattsnacken" (talking
sweet/toadying), they are more down to earth and honest and "free rut".
Well, of course there are Grootsnuten and Glattsnackers among the villagers
too and many honest and unboastful people in the cities, but the city tends
to be more aloof.

Marcus Buck

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Culture

Thanks a lot, Marcus.

I sure appreciate your take on this (and you know more about Ina Müller than
I do). I just went by what I read in the interview, and things like saying
that refugee parents dragging their children all over Babylon are mean seems
a bit ... well, dumb to me. No, one doesn't have to qualify for the post of
UN Secretary General, but one can do just a bit of thinking before speaking.
But perhaps I misunderstood it and it was meant to be some sort of joke that
I don't get.

I see nothing wrong with irreverence, at least not well-place irreverence
that that doesn't put people down and involves thinking and challenging the
status quo.

"Free rut" is fine, especially at home where everyone pretty much thinks and
acts the same. In this day and age of constant inter-cultural
shoulder-rubbing, however, a modicum of tact and politeness is warranted, I
feel. This has nothing to do with toadying, just as not making comments to
people's faces about their looks, dress or ways of walking is not toadying.
Also, I hardly think that diplomacy is by definition dishonest. It's a
matter of restraint.

Anyway, it's quite possible I'm misunderstanding and misjudging this person.
Who knows? Just for having said these things I might end up in one room with
her someday ... At least then I'd find out.

In the meantime I watched a couple of videos of her performances, and it
seems to me that she is a "typical" stand-up comedian, though with a singing
twist, that *relies* on "naughtiness". In the US, imagine Cathy Griffin
spiking her routines with songs.

And here she claims that Low Saxon in not "a language in its own right" (*eine
eigenständige Sprache*) but *eine eigene Fremdsprache* ("its own foreign
language"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozQR3BnfFgg&amp

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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