LL-L "Etymology" 2008.03.01 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  - 01 March 2008 - Volume 01
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From: Marsha Wilson <marshatrue at mtangel.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.29 (10) [E]

Awk!  Awk!  Well, I plead incipient old-timer's disease.  Lad, you might've
spared me the embarrassment and replied off list!  The rest of you lot
please disregard the interruption.

But thanks for the info.
Ol' Whutsername

From: Marsha Wilson <marshatrue at mtangel.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2008.02.29 (06) [E]

Regarding the origin of last names.....you tell me!  My maiden name is
Coin.  I am apparently of Scots-Irish and Welsh ancestry.  I've never asked
a linguist about the name.  I suspect it didn't come from money, as that's
apparently always been missing in my family, LOL.  My great-grandmother's
maiden name was True, and I carry it also.  If anyone has insight into
either name, I'm all ears, as they say.

Marsha True Coin Wilson
in the cloudy lowlands of Oregon

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Oh, Marsha, Marsha! What shall we do with you?

Take a lot at the archived message below.

Reinhard/Ron
Sleepy in Seattle

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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.29 (04) [E]

 Dear Jorge

Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

You wrote: Member Dreyer isn't in the OED, but *drayer*, *dreyman* and *
drayman* are, all meaning a carter. Not a word in my Dutch and German
dictionaries.

Same from my Sweet's OED. But Family history avers that the founding father
of our line was a waterfiscaal, a water-bailiff. Such an official's business
was to the police the *turning* of the water-gates on the sluices - I
daresay an important enough position whether there is too much water on the
land or too little.

Our Ron came up with other derivations, offering the point that it could
refer to a turner, a lathe-operator, which is a recognised specialist craft
in the remote past, & which makes better sense in Afrikaans, & to my chagrin
also the possibility that it refers to (going Yiddish) a swindler - one who
turns the truth.

Yrs,
Mark

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From: M.-L. Lessing <marless at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.29 (04) [E]

 Dear Jorge,

my name Lessing is slavic and derived from "les" = wood. "les-nik" must have
been "the man from the wood". (Perhaps a charcoal-burner?) The origin
region of the name is in fact the Lausitz, a region in the eastern corner of
today's Saxony. The writer and dramatist G.E. Lessing came from there too,
he was born a clergyman's son in Kamenz. But there is no connection between
him and my family except the name. My father's ancestors have lived in the
Lausitz as honest craftsmen, mostly stone-masons, for centuries, and none of
them ever wrote a play or even a poem :-) They came from there to Westphalia
when the great coal mines along river Ruhr developed, in one of the first
waves of industrialisation. They then lived as workers and teachers in
Westphalias towns and married daughters of local workers, teachers and
farmers. -- How do I know? Hitler's doing. My father's family once needed an
"Ariernachweis" (a proof of their family's non-jewish descent) in the Nazi
era, and the young genealogist they engaged for the job developed much more
enthusiasm than he was asked for and traced the family back till the time of
30-years-war, when the church registers were burned.

My mother's familiy were farmers in the Elbmarsch south of Hamburg, their
name was Jungclaus, and my grandmother's maiden name was also Jungclaus.
They also can be traced back to the Deluge. But when I consider all the
sidestreams that flow into one's genetical and personal history, I think it
sheer wantonness that we should be represented by *one* name that has come
from just one branch. The Individual can not be caught in this. Unless,
indeed, you identify with it by free will. (And even not then ;-))

Hartlich Gröten,

Marlou

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From: KarlRein at aol.com
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.29 (10) [E]

While we are on the topic of the etymologies of names, I wonder if you,
Reinhard, have any comments about your first name, and my last name,
Reinhardt.  I once had a professor who thought the first half was related to
"rain", i.e., "regen".  His doctorate was in Germanic philology, from around
the beginning of the 20th century,  but I never felt convinced by his
etymon.  If you have already discussed this, I must have missed it.  Sorry.

Thanks.

Karl Reinhardt

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hi, All!

Sorry, Marsha dearest. I thought it was cute, not embarrassing. I find this
barnacle goose thing just as unforgettably cute.

Our Mark's surname Dreyer, also spelled Dreier and Draier, is pretty common
in Northern Germany, and I believe that in these cases it is the equivalent
of the German noun *Dreher* 'turner'. It would never even enter my mind to
apply the Yiddish meaning, of course.

Thanks for the interesting information about the name Lessing, Marlou! I
never connected it with Sorbian, but it makes a lot of sense now that you
explained it. Duh! In Upper Sorbian, *lěsnik* means 'forester'. The famous
writer and philosopher Gotthold Ephraim Lessing, who also has a Hamburg
connection, was actually born and raised in Kamenz (Upper Sorbian *Kamjenc*),
Upper Lusatia (*Hornja Łužica*, *Oberlausitz*).

Please note that today's Lusatia (US* Łužica*, LS *Łužyca, *G. *Lausitz*) is
only a tiny fraction of the original Lusatia, which included the cities
Leipzig (US *Lipsk*), Dresden (US *Drježdźany*) and Görlitz (US *Zhorjelc*,
Polish *Zgorzelec*, Czech *Zhořelec*), as well as a small part of Lower
Silesia that is now on the Polish side of the border. A part of the region
was under the domination of the Czech crown for a while. My maternal
grandmother was from Görlitz, but her name and folklore were Sorbian.
Görlitz, once the Lusatian capital and a wealthy member of the Upper
Lusatian Six City League (German *Oberlausitzer Sechsstädtebund*, Czech *
Šestiměstí*, Polish *Związek Sześciu Miast*), is where Sorbian research
institutions used to be until the late 19th century. The Polish city of
Gorlice near Kraków was founded by Sorbian settlers from Görlitz.

The Nazis' suspicion regarding your father's surname probably arose from the
fact that quite a few Jews bore the name Lessing, such as the philosopher
Theodor Lessing (1872‒1933) and the geologist Fyodor Yulievich
Levinson-Lessing (1861‒1939).

Karl, yes, I have mentioned the origin of Reinhard, Reinhart and Reinhardt*
*before, but its sheer wonderfulness surely bears repeating. ;-)

The origin is Old Saxon (and Old German?) *Raginhart*. *Ragin* (which you
find in *Raginwald* > *Reginald*, German *Reinald*, and in *Reginhold* > *
Reinhold*, English *Reynold*, as well) means 'counsel', 'advice',
'decision'. *Hart* means 'hard', 'firm', 'sound', 'accomplished', 'good at'.
It used to be associated with cleverness, astuteness ... of course. ;-)
Hence also its connection the the Reynard the Fox.

Foxy greeting,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Beste Lowlanners,

these days I came upon a probably soon (already??) forgotten LS-word I had
learned as a five-years-old boy (a good half century ago ;-)); from a
neighbor who was about 85 years old *at that time*! It *sounds* in German
spelling *'_Pataguten_'*, would be in English something like *'Puttugooten'*
.
It came to me in connection with an amazing little story I'd like to tell
you.

As a child then I had a small wooden scooter with solid rubber tires,
mounted on red disc wheels of steel in which there were some holes.
One bad day I happened to ride into one of the many ditches which
characterized our landscape at that time. Well- I managed to climb out of
the muddy water but wasn't able to take my scooter with me. Our neighbour,
who had been watching my mishap, came and helped me to rescue my vehicle.
When we pulled it out of water and swamp we saw a little fish who had
trapped itself in one of the wheel holes. "Oh, look- an eel!" I said because
it really looked like an eel. '"No. boy," my neighbor said, "this isn't an
eel, it's a *Pataguten*. You can't eat it; it's uneatable or even poisened."

Many years later I tried to find out the German name of this fish, and I
asked a lot of people around me. Except of *one* man- he was owner of a
store for tackling equipment and is meanwhile dead- nobody could help me in
my investigations. This man- born and grown up in the extended local
region- confirmed the word but he also didn't know the Standard German name.

I needed a lucky hit to come across the truth: in 'Pataguten' there is
hidden the G: 'Schlammpeitzger', zool. *'Misgumus'*, with the curious
nickname G: 'Gewitterfurzer', meaning E: 'Thunderstorm-farter'- a small
fish, indeed looking like an eel, which is able to live in minimized
habitats with few oxygen. (Other nicknames are 'Wetterfisch',
['weather-fish'], 'Quietsch-Aal', ['squeak-eel'].)

Is there anyone round the world having an idea where this curious LS
'_Pataguten_', which on the first sight doesn't look/sound lowlandish at
all, could originate from? Additional we could try different spellings like
*'Paraguten', 'Paddaguden', 'Pallaguden', 'Pellagoen'* etc.

Allerbest and thanks in award!

Jonny Meibohm
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