LL-L "Etymology" 2008.03.04 (02) [E]

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.03.03 (02) [E]

Are you sure about Frisian "ticht" meaning open? Because normally it just
means "close(d)", as Dutch "dicht" does. Can you give an example of this
usage, and where you found it, Reinhard? The Frisian word for open
is "iepen", Dutch "open".

Btw in Low Saxon in the Netherlands, the word "lös" is used for open.
This leads to fun and confusion with Dutch speakers, because Dutch "los"
means loose. Many Low Saxon speakers will say in Dutch "de deur is los"
(the doore has got loose) or "de winkel is los" (the shop is sold out)
instead of correct Dutch "de deur is open" and "de winkel is open" (the
door/shop is open).
Does this also occur in Low Saxon in Germany?

Ingmar

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Folks,

Here's a seemingly weird one.

How do you explain West (Westerlauwers) Frisian *ticht* 'open'?

I would associate it with English "tight", Scots *ticht* [tɪxt], Low
Saxon,
Dutch, German *dicht* 'tight', 'near', 'close', 'closed', 'shut', etc.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.03.03 (03) [E]

From: orville crane <manbythewater at hotmail.com>
Subject: iepen, ticht

Dear Ron,
  Yes, I thought that it was strange that "ticht" would mean open too. I
looked up "ticht" in the glossary of P. Sipma's "Phonology and Grammar of
Modern West Frisian", 1913, second edition 1966.
  "Ticht" is defined as close, dense. I suppose that it would be cognate to
tight. So you were right to think that something was odd.
Indeed. I was about to reply, but you beat me to it.. The word for "open" is
"iepen" from Old Frisian "e:pen". This must have come (as e.g. Spenter also
thinks in his dissertation on the Schiermonnikoog dialect) from something
like "øpen", which has cognates in Scandinavian (from "opin" or something
like that, with fronting-causing i in the next syllable and the result was
derounded, as always in Frisian. The lengthening was probably caused by a
clustering, like "øppn".
E..g German has "offen" (so short still and no fronting), Dutch, like
English "open" (no fronting, lengthening in open syllable, presumably).
Saterfrisian has "eepen" still. So in West-germanic, the fronting seems odd.
Maybe Low Saxon varieties also have umlauted (fronted) vowels? I think I
recall forms like "eupen", if not in Low Saxon, then in Limburgian, or both.
But coming back to "ticht" (closed, indeed, or dense, of fog etc.): the t-
is like English tight, Scots ticht etc. But then why do Dutch and German
have d- ?
makes no sense. Either the t- is old in WF or it comes from "th" (regular in
(Westerlauwer and most other) Frisian: trije ~ three, troch ~ through etc.)
and this would explain Dutch/German d-.

  Incidentally, in Faroese, West North Germanic, the word for tight, dense,
close-packed is "taettur". "Taettur" stands in contrast to "tjukkur"; thick
or stout. Going back to our Frisian friend, "ticht", we also find "tsjok"
(thick) in contrast.

Indeed, from "*thiuk" in Old Frisian, with Old Frisian breaking of -i-  (as
in "rjocht", right) and regular th --> t, where t+i+V becomes tsj+V
normally.It only means "thick" for things like porridge etc. People are
called "grou" when they are overweight (as the Dutch cognate "dik" is used
for that in Dutch).

  It is my pleasure to read the Lowland blog, As you can see by my email
address, manbythewater at hotmail.com, I am also a Lowlander by the sea in
peninsular New Jersey.
Yours truly,
Tom Crane +

regards

Henno Brandsma
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