LL-L "Phonology" 2008.05.02 (07) [E]

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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2008.05.02 (05) [E]

> From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Phonology"
>
> Beste Ingmar & Ron,
>
> Ingmar wrote:
> > I pronounce it "baSIlicum" [ba"silik at m] in Dutch. So with an S
> > instead of
> > a Z and with the second syllable stressed.
>
> Same stress here for basilicum, but with a Z (and "basiLIek" indeed).
> However, a shopping mall, near the big basilica of Koekelberg
> (Brussels) is called "BAsilix", but with a Z (stress on "ba", even in
> French I think).
>
> Btw, "la Basilicata" is also a region in Southern Italy, that used to
> be called Lucania. Some think that Luc(as) < Loukanos = Greek for "man
> from Lucania". The region used to be inhabited by Greek people, and
> Basilicata < Basilikos (Greek for "official of the king"), as it was
> part of Magna Graecia. Apparently, Saxons (of all people  :-D )  tried
> to eradicate this Greek presence in Italy. More about the Italo/Greek
> character of Southern Italy:

I suppose it has to be asked, where does the town of Basildon in Essex,
England, fit into all this?

Presumably the "don" means an upland region or hill, leaving "Basil" to
be explained.

I pronounce the herb and name as "bazzle" in English and Scots, but in
Scots the /a/ -> /e/ shift can be productive on the stressed syllable if
it's the first syllable of the word. Some such shifts are old and not
optional in the regions where they're applied, eg, father -> faither,
some may be more dynamic, eg I might say "carpet" or sometimes
"cairpet".

In general, the further south in Scotland, the more you hear the /e/
forms. By the time you reach Berwickshire you may even hear "waiter" for
"watter" (water), which people in central dialects probably wouldn't
use. Conversely, it can surprise some central Scots to find that
"father" is still used rather than "faither" in some more northerly
dialects.

So it's always possible that some Scots speakers, most likely in the
south, would say "baizle" as a productive phonetic shift.

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2008.05.02 (05) [E]

I pronounce "basilicum" with [s] because word initial s or stressed
syllable initial s  in Dutch is pronounced [s] not [z] before a vowel.
Unlike German, where s = [z] in this position. When the syllable does not
have stress, it is z in Dutch. BaSIlicum (= E. basil) with [s], but
basiLIEK (=basilica) with [z] because the syllable si does not have stress
here... Complicated?
Ingmar

From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology"

Beste Ingmar & Ron,

Ingmar wrote:

I pronounce it "baSIlicum" [ba"silik at m] in Dutch. So with an S instead of
a Z and with the second syllable stressed.

Same stress here for basilicum, but with a Z (and "basiLIek" indeed).
However, a shopping mall, near the big basilica of Koekelberg (Brussels) is
called "BAsilix", but with a Z (stress on "ba", even in French I think).

Btw, "la Basilicata" is also a region in Southern Italy, that used to be
called Lucania. Some think that Luc(as) < Loukanos = Greek for "man from
Lucania". The region used to be inhabited by Greek people, and Basilicata <
Basilikos (Greek for "official of the king"), as it was part of Magna
Graecia. Apparently, Saxons (of all people :-D )  tried to eradicate this
Greek presence in Italy. More about the Italo/Greek character of Southern
Italy:

•

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