LL-L "History" 2008.05.19 (01) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  - 19 May 2008 - Volume 01
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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2008.05.18 (02) [E]

Beste Reinhard,

Du schreyvst:

At any rate, they are based on what you and I seem to consider a fact: that
in the land of the *Nordliudi *(today's Dithmarschen, Stedingen, Hadeln and
Kehdingen) there is a long tradition of what outsiders tend to consider
conservatism. Even if you do not subscribe to this you must admit that, as
in the cases of Dat Ole Land (Das Alte Land) and Veerlannen* (Vierlanden*)
and even Finkwarder (Finkenwerder), it is remarkable that people in those
parts have retained their identity so long considering the close proximity
of at least three cities: Hamburg, Cuxhaven and Bremerhaven.

A short trip into our local (i.e. Elbe-Weser-triangle) historical
background might be useful and could partly be an answer to your questions:

Going back into medieval history of this region I at first should mention
the cities Bremen, Hamburg and Stade- later all of them members of the
Hanse- which stood in contest to each other but had a good reason for common
interests as well: to keep the mouthes of the rivers Elbe and Weser safe, at
first against the Vikings, later against wreckers and pirates, to enable
security for their inhabitants and expanding trading.
Stade soon lost its status as an important trading post but became the
administrative center of the Archbisdom of Bremen (not identical with the
city of Bremen but a suffragat, a part of the Archbisdom of Cologne), whose
holder also was Bishop of Hamburg.

So we have three main parties (*) playing the regional game: the big and
rich cities of Bremen and Hamburg and the Archbishop who roughly ruled the
region between Hamburg and Bremen south of the Elbe river and west of the
Weser river. Each single party always had an eye on the two others that they
shouldn't become too mighty; one could say that for some hundred years there
was a balance of power between them which enabled the 'system' to run.
*(I shouldn't forget to mention the Duke of Lauenburg who also had
some rights in Hamburg as well as in Hadeln- he sometimes turned the scale.)
A result of these different influences and different shapes of interests
might have been a certain smell of freedom and liberality for all the people
living in the region. There probably was no additional space for any
considerable influence from the side of the Archbishop of Cologne (and not
to forget the Archbishop of Mainz who also claimed his
part) whome Charlemagne 'admeasured' the region after the Saxons were
defeated.

And another fact might have played a role: different from East- and
Westphalia you won't find any mighty monasteries here as well as big
aristocratic landowners (Kehdingen is the exception, but all the noble
families came not until AD 1306, and then as liegemen of and with the
archbishop).

But much mightier than worldly or clerical power was the water! *It* was and
is the true dominator of the deep areas along the rivers Elbe and Weser, and
people who wanted to live there primarily had to build and to take care for
the dikes and draining-system. This wasn't a job just for slaves or bondmen-
every human being who wanted to live in the marshlands had to be aware of
the threat caused by storm and flood. Just last week there was a public
annunciation from our local adminmistration remembering that every man
between the age of 18 and 60(?) still has to serve at the dikes in case of
danger.
To this especialness along the whole continental coast of the North Sea even
the Franconian rulers had to give tribute if they didn't want to get loss of
human lifes, great areas of fertile land and prospering cities. By and large
they met and later assisted a 'naturally' grown social and oeconomical
system of the native inhabitants- Saxons as well as Frisians.

Last but not least I guess the flair of the wide world which came into this
region by sailors and tradesmen did do its bit to a certain liberality and
'open-mindness' which you probably wouldn't have found as well in the deep
inland.

Don't take the above as results of any educated historian but just as my
very own thoughts.

Allerbest!

Jonny Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: History

Thank you very much, Jonny, for sharing your interesting overview.

Doesn't immigration from what are now the Netherlands figure into this at
some point too?

What about a possible Frisian element? Erstwhile Frisian-speaking presence
is definitely attested all the way from what is now Belgium to Land Wursten
at the southern end of the mouth of the Elbe, on the island of Heligoland
off the mouth of the Elbe and then again north of Dithmarschen into the
southwest of what is now the Danish part of the Jutland Peninsula. Going by
a place name like Büsum, I wonder if there used to be some Frisian presence
in Dithmarschen as well.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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