LL-L "Grammar" 2008.10.17 (01) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 17 October 2008 - Volume 01
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From: ipm7d at oi.com.br
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.10.16 (06) [E]

Dear Reinhard,


   Thank you for the answer, and congratulations on your site.
It's like very helpful for us living outside the Lowlands because whe
can get in touch with the language.
There are a few Dutch citizens still living here in my town but they
only speak Standard Dutch, like Father Hofstead, a  friend of mine.
   My state, Pernambuco was conquered by the Dutch some centuries ago,
and they left some herritage before being sent away by the Portuguese.
Some linguistics say that our final "r" pronunciation is derived from
their own. There are many street names in many towns called Mauricio de
Nassau. He gave Olinda it's name. It sounds a little like Holanda, the
Pg. word for The Netherlands.
  Well,
    God bless,
    Beste regards,

          Ívison.

Mensagem Original:

Data: 15:40:38 16/10/2008
De: Lowlands-L List <lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM>
Assunto: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.10.16 (06) [E]



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L O W L A N D S - L - 16 October 2008 - Volume 06
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From: Ivison dos Passos Martins <ipm7d at OI.COM.BR>
Subject: Linguistics Plattdüütsche

Dear friends,

 I've been studying a little Plattdüütsche , thanks to
lowlandsl.net/grammar/ and I'd like to know how to differ the neuter
article "dat" from the demonstrative "dat". How would a native say the
house and that house? Is the distinction only in saying dat daar Huus?
 Thanks,

   see you.

  Ívison

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Moin, Ívison!

Since the website you mentioned is mine, I will answer first. Others may
give you different answers.

And please be aware that I am working on a new and much improved English
version which is temporarily posted here:

http://lowlands-l.net/grammar-new/

I had hoped to make some more progress on it this month, but all sorts of
other things have been interfering with it.

Anyway, in most Northern Low Saxon (Low German) dialects there are five uses

of d*at*:

  - neuter definite article (corresponding to *it* and *et* in other
  dialects, Dutch *het*, German *das*)
  - neuter personal pronoun ('it', Dutch *het*, German *es*), having
  replaced earlier *it* and *et* which survive in some dialect
  - neuter demonstrative ('that', Dutch *dat*, German *das*)
  - relative pronoun or adverb ('that', Dutch *dat*, German *dass*)

Since the older demonstrative *dat* has replaced the older neuter article *
it* ~ *et*, the difference in use can only be told by context and
intonation; e.g.

*dat huus* 'that house' (aquela casa)
*dat huus* 'the house'' (a casa)

Where demonstration needs to be clarified or emphasized you can add
*daar*'there', e.g.

*dat daar huus * (aquela casa)
*dat huus daar * (aquela casa)

both meaning 'that house (there)' (or 'that thar house' in some English
dialects).

Similarly, in the case of demonstrative pronouns *daar* can be added for
clarity or emphasis:

*Is dat (daar) dyn huus?* 'Is that your house (there)?'
*Nee, dat daar.* 'No, that (over) there.'

I hope this answered your question, Ívison.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron


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From: Jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.10.16 (06) [E]

Beste Ivison,



you seem to make advantage in your studies.



Reinhard already answered to your question, very precisely and completely as
usual.



Perhaps I could add, that often it is possible to strengthen a demonstration
pronoun by emphasising its pronunciation, as well as you might know it from
other languages.



Allerbest!



Jonny Meibohm


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From: M.-L. Lessing <marless at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.10.16 (06) [E]

Dear Ívison,



I have heard "dat Hus dor" as well as "dat dore Hus". In the first case the
house must be visible, you practically point at it. In the second case, the
house may be a house only spoken of, or something long ago; it is more like
"jenes Haus". -- Dear Reinhard: Is "dore" in "dat dore Hus" or in "de doren
Tieden" an adjective, to be used like "dat grote Hus" or "de olen Tieden"?
Is there any better way to say "jener, jene, jenes" op Platt?



Hartlich!



Marlou


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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Thanks, Ívison.

Please note my dear friends Jonny and Marlou's important notes above.
Special thanks go to Marlou for reminding us of the adjectival form of *daar
* (there) in some dialects, as in *dat dare huus* ("that there{-e} house")
in many dialects.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

Just back from 16 hours in a hospital emergency room, filled with numerous
tests and morphene refuge after several days' of a unbelievable pain in the
neck (and head) and completely sleepless nights (in Seattle). After two
incorrect ones, the correct diagnosis arrived less than one hour before the
visible tell-tale signs of an extreme form of shingles (*Herpes zoster,
gordelroos, Gördelroos', Gürtelrose, helvedesild, zona, culebrilla, cobrão,
cobreiro, półpasiec, опоясывающий лишай*, 帯状疱疹), the evil twin of
chickenpocks. Oh, the pain! Oh, the misery! Oh, the humanity!
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