LL-L "Grammar" 2008.08.31 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

===========================================
L O W L A N D S - L - 31 August 2008 - Volume 04
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please set the encoding mode to Unicode (UTF-8).
If viewing this in a web browser, please click on
the html toggle at the bottom of the archived page
and switch your browser's character encoding to Unicode.
===========================================


From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L Grammar Re: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.08.31 (02) [E]

> From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
> Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.08.30 (02) [E/LS]>
> "Blijven" is one of the verbs forming a participle without ge- suffix.

About the *ge- prefix for the participle*, distinguishing Lox Saxon from
Low-Franconian (and German) I found this article:
T. van de Wijngaard
*Blève, kómme, krèje, vóngen woeëde i kaat braat**
Het voltooid deelwoord van zes werkwoorden met perfectieve betekenis in de
Limburgse dialecten.*
Jaarboek van de Vereniging voor Limburgse Dialect- en Naamkunde, 1999, p.
79-90

(Title translated into Dutch:
Gebleven, gekomen, gekregen, gevonden, geworden in kaart gebracht)



I scanned and leave for a couple of days on these urls (copyrights may
apply):

http://www.euro-support.be/temp/del/79.jpg

http://www.euro-support.be/temp/del/80.jpg

http://www.euro-support.be/temp/del/81.jpg

http://www.euro-support.be/temp/del/82.jpg

http://www.euro-support.be/temp/del/83.jpg

http://www.euro-support.be/temp/del/84.jpg

http://www.euro-support.be/temp/del/85.jpg

http://www.euro-support.be/temp/del/86.jpg

http://www.euro-support.be/temp/del/87.jpg

http://www.euro-support.be/temp/del/88.jpg

http://www.euro-support.be/temp/del/89.jpg

http://www.euro-support.be/temp/del/90.jpg



The autor unfortunately limits his analysis to the Netherlands Limburg and
thinks in East-West terms while the map on p 86 clearly reveals a
North-South phenomenon. The forms *without ge-* are very much alive in the
South of Belgian Limburg.



In my Lonerland Limburgish from Vliermaal:



Hië és dowd *bleve*

He died (and is still dead)



Hië es giestere tos *kome*

He came home yesterday (and is probably still at home)



Ich höp de grip *krege*

I got the flu (and still have it)



Ich höp dië boek treuch *vonne*

I found that book again (and probably still have it)



Hië es professor *wjonne*

He became a professor (and he probably still is)



but for "brengen" I would rather use the ge-prefix;



Wa hee (= het dzjië) mèt(*ge)*braach

What did you bring with you?



Regards,

Roger

----------

From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: Re: LL-L Grammar ADDENDUM Re: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.08.31 (02) [E]

I have been thinking about this one:



> From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc.
> To: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM
> Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 9:10 PM
> Subject: LL-L Grammar Re: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.08.31 (02) [E]
> but for "brengen" I would rather use the ge-prefix;
> Wa hee (= het dzjië) mèt(ge)braach
> What did you bring with you



I would use:



Waa het er mèt*braach*?

What did he bring (with him)?



Ich höp ene boek mèt*gebraach*

I brought a book (with me).



In the first case the *outcome of the action is not clear yet.*



I guess in my previous example with the *2d person* the outcome will
be *directly
clarified*, hence my hesitation.



Regards,

Roger



----------



From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Thanks a lot, Roger!

This is very interesting in a peculiar sort of way, much like the two types
of infinitives in Frisian.

Regards.
Reinhard/Ron
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20080831/d8c4ca7d/attachment.htm>