LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.04.07 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 07 April 2009 - Volume 02
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From: jmtait <jmtait at wirhoose.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.04.03 (01) [E]

Ron wrote:

 Dear Lowlanders,

Lately several people joined us (and welcome to today's newbie from
Lancashire!) that indicate Scots and specifically Shetlandic as their
particular interest. However, our Sandy – the rrecent holder-high of the
Scots flag – being currently missing in action, no one seems to be game tto
start a Scots and/or Shetlandic thread. How about it? Dinna be feart, fowk!

To kick off the game – perhaps – let me find out what the pe prevailing
opinion is among you is. Is Shetlandic a dialect group within the Scots
language or should it be seen as a separate language? The more I look at
Shetlandic the more I wonder if it should not be considered a separate
language on account of its numerous rather very different features, most of
which seem to be due to a Scandinavian (Norn) substratum. And then what
about Orcadian? Should the two together be seen as "Insular Scots"? Should
they even *be* considered a group?


Are you trying to tempt me out of Lurkerdom, Ron? I should explain to others
that I used to be a frequent contributor to this list, in a former
incarnation.

First of all - does anyone know anything about Sandy? I sent him an e-mail
recently and haven't had a reply. Last I heard from him was just after Xmas.

Regarding what I used to call 'Shetlandic', I would refer you to my website,
except that I have taken it down meantime. I would refer anyone interested
in reading some random discussion on the topic to this website:

http://www.shetlink.com/

The linguistic forum is subscription-only (a bit like porn! - or so I'm led
to believe, anyway...). You'll have to request membership from the
moderators to gain access to it. My username is DePooperit. Any linguistic
threads that crop up in the main forum get shunted here, including one - in
a thread called 'rants' - that began like this:

"I know I'm probably in the minority here.. but posts made in the Shetland
dialect,

Christ it takes 3 times as long to read.. then you have to read it again
just to make sure your not about to insult someone unknowingly..

Is there a point to it?

Does it serve a purpose other than to annoy me?

It is rude..

There is a time and a place, and in the middle of serious topics is not the
place imo. "

The fact that people feel free to make comments such as this in a forum
entitled 'Shetlink' is perhaps a sufficient indication of the status of the
tongue in its native region. I don't know whether the decision of the
moderators to move linguistic threads to a closed forum is a tacit
acceptance of this complaint, or merely a coincidence.

As far as the term 'Shetlandic' is concerned, to cut a long story short, I
have had so much 'stick' from my fellow Shetlanders for using this term that
I have abandoned it. In fact, for a few years, I have been avoiding the
subject altogether.

More generally, I think the whole question boils down to whether or not you
agree with this statement:

'One argument against a standardisation of Scots spelling is that one of the
language's very strengths lies in its flexibility and its
less-than-respectable status: writers turn to it because it offers a refuge
for linguistic individualism, anarchism, nomadism and hedonism... William
McIlvanney has spoken of Scots as being like English in its underwear,
stripped of all pretensions, and in some respects this is very apt.'

James Roberston, introduction to *A Tongue in yer Heid*.

John M. Tait.


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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, John.

 Are you trying to tempt me out of Lurkerdom, Ron?


Ay, that wis ane o the ettles. Hoot ay, ye're gey gleg!

Forby A wis wantin at laist ane victim fer ma "Scots". ;-)

I'm still not sure about your view regarding … dare I say it … "Shetlandic"?
But it sure was great to hear from you and it's fantastic to have you back
in our fold. We'll try and keep the annoying parts to a minimum and will
always respect and lap up your knowledge and opinions. We try to be nice.

As for Our Sandy, he has gotten in touch with me in the meantime. I can
report that he's all right. It's only his old router that isn't, and
installing the new connection is not an easy matter when you live in a small
village. But he'll be back and hopefully his vocal self again soon.

Welcome back, John!

Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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