LL-L "Etymology" 2009.04.07 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 07 April 2009 - Volume 01
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From: Tom Mc Rae <thomas.mcrae at bigpond.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.04.06 (04) [E]

On 07/04/2009, at 10:24 AM,  heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk  wrote:


Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.04.04 (02) [E]



During my time with the British Armed Services in the 1950's "chuffed" was
in very common use among uniformed folks from all over The British Isles

as was its negative "choked", similar to miffed.  Our Aussie members may be
familiar with Radio/TV personality Miff Warhurst who actully is

too bubbly to ever be miffed. I suspect in  her case it is short for Mfanwy
or Mave.



And also 'chuffed' meaning pleased or delighted - he says is derived from
Welsh 'hoffi'= to delight in.



Regards

Tom Mc Rae

Brisbane

AUSTRALIA

"Oh wad some power the Giftie gie us,

Tae see oorsels as ithers see us

Robert Burns


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From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.04.06 (04) [E]

Lowlands-L List (i.e. Heather) wrote:

 And also 'chuffed' meaning pleased or delighted - he says is derived from
Welsh 'hoffi'= to delight in.
My mum would  not let me use 'chuffed' (she from Northants may have first
have heard it from my father, North Nottinghamshire), because it was "rude".


She wouldn't explain, but the OED does.

Chuff is related to chafe (meaning to warm up by rubbing).  Except it's not
hands that are getting warm.  And pleased.

Cheers,

Pat

ps, good news on thesis, it is Too Big, my ISP says, but the Archaeology
Data Service has agreed to host it, so I hope to bring it to you soon.

-- 
Pat Reynolds

It may look messy now ...
        ... but just you come back in 500 years time (T. Pratchett).



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From: bsu295 at bangor.ac.uk
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.04.06 (04) [E]

T'reet Heather,

Ta for noticing my like phraset'other day. The Lancastrian Dialect has
indeed got a lot of Celtic roots, and it too has a lot of Old Norsk I do
believe. I am a Wigan Lad (well parbold to be precise) that area of
Lancashire has got alot of Celtic roots and can be seen in palce names, such
as bryn, and Wigan fro that matter. However me family are all from a much
nicer Market town than Wiggan Called Ormskirk which indeed is an old Norsk
settlement which can be seen in other settlements surrounding it. Also My
Grandparent on me mothers side were all from the more scouse parts of
Lancashire, Bootle and Aintree, which however have now got a somewhat
different accent and dialect than from when my Grandparents where there. So
much so that the Broad Lancastrian areas such as ormskirk, skelmersdale
andevento some extent St' Helens are being highly influenced by this newer
form Scouse Lancastrian Dialect. Infact even people from my Village who go
to School in ormskirk (after 5 years of high school) come back with a really
broads scouse accent. Whilst the elderfolk of the area such as my fathers
grandparents (in ormskirk) sound nothing like that and still speak in a gud
old Lancastrian.

Oh I also know that in the northern reaches of Lancashire, onthe furness,
and in muchof Westmorlandand southern Cumberland they are highlyinfluenced
by old Cumbric and once again Norsk, which can too be seen in there local
Dialect, however some words are shared and many not with southern
Lancastrian. One of my collegues frommy Lab actually worked upon a small
topic looking at celtic history through-out lancashire, as he was looking at
something to do with celtic genes in the local population.

Ta very much for this info by the way Heather, I always like to know where
local word origins are. I think I new of Miffed, but I had no idea the
chuffed cem from hoffi. Oh Wyt ti'n siarad cymraeg Heather Cariad?

Tara
Gregg [Ashcroft]



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From: KarlRein at aol.com
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.04.06 (04) [E]

I have only spent a couple of days in London, or Great Britain for that
matter, and have never set foot in Australia.  The reason you are so
familiar with "miffed" is that anyone in the United States (and I suspect,
in English-speaking Canada) is also familiar with it.  :-)



Karl Reinhardt



In a message dated 4/6/2009 7:25:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM writes:

Hmm... Interesting, Heather. I wonder why I am so familiar with “miffed”
then. My time in London? Australia?

I was not familiar with “chuffed”, though.


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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hmm … Thanks, Karl. Excellent point, come to think of it. ;-) The most
obvious isn't always the closest, is it?

By the way, folks, the on-line *Oxford English Dictionary* does not mention
the proposed Celtic angle Our Heather told us about:



MIFFED
[< MIFF v. + -ED suffix1. Compare earlier MIFTY adj., MIFFISH adj., MIFF
adj., MIFFY adj.]

MIFF verb
[< MIFF n.]

MIFF noun
[Origin uncertain. Perhaps originally an exclamation of imitative origin;
perhaps compare Middle High German *muff*, *mupf*, interjection expressing
disgust (also *miff muff*, with reduplication and variation of the vowel),
also used as noun denoting the corresponding gesture or facial expression.]



Modern German and Low Saxon still have the adjective *muffig* 'musty',
'stuffy', 'fusty' (Dutch *vunzig*). I rather suspect that's related. I can
see a semantic connection there. When someone is miffed, he or she is in a
foul mood. Right?

*Miff* has been attested in English only since the mid-17th century.

And about "chuffed":



CHUFFED a.
*slang (orig. Mil.).*
[cf. CHUFF a.1 and a.2]
a. Pleased, satisfied.    b. Displeased, disgruntled.

CHUFF a
*Obs. exc. dial.*
[Belongs to CHUFF n.2: cf. CHUFFY a.2]
  1. Swollen or puffed out with fat; chubby.
1609 …
  2. Pleased, satisfied, happy. dial.
1860 …

CHUFFY a.2
*Obs. exc. dial.
*[f. CHUFF n.2 + -Y1.]

    Fat, swollen or puffed out with fat, esp. of the cheeks; plump-cheeked;
chubby.

CHUFF n.2
*Obs.
*[Origin unknown.]

    A cheek swollen or puffed with fat; also, the muzzle of beasts.
1530 …



Please also consider:



CHUFF n.1
[Origin unknown. In 17th c. sometimes spelt chough by confusion with, or
play on, the name of the bird.]
    1. A rustic, boor, clown, churl.
1440 …
2. Generally applied opprobriously, with a fitting epithet, to any person
disliked; esp.    a. a rude coarse churlish fellow;    b. a miser, a close
avaricious man. Cf. boor, churl, carl, birkie, etc.


Welsh *hoff* means 'favorite', 'adored', and *hoffi* means 'to like'. I can
see the possible semantic connection. But I have a problem with /h/ => /č/
(ch). Are there other Welsh loans that corroborate the possibility of such a
shift?

'n gyfeillgar anerchiadau at pawb.

Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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