LL-L "Etymology" 2009.04.13 (03) [E/German]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 13 April 2009 - Volume 03
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From: Hellinckx Luc <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>

Subject: LL-L "Etymology"



Beste Marlou,

You wrote:

 Was steckt da alles drin? "Schicht" kommt doch von "scheiden", von
"auseinanderhalten" also. Ob da das "schehen" aus "ge-schehen" mit drin ist,
weiß ich nicht sicher, aber möglich ist es, besonders wenn man bedenkt,
dass
sich das Ge-schehene in Ge-schichte wandelt. "Schichtig kieken" würde dann
bedeuten "Sehen, was geschieht", "Zukünftiges auseinanderhalten können".
Am
Ende ist in "Schicht" ganz einfach die "Sicht" drin?! "Sichtig kieken"
würde
ja keiner weiteren Erläuterung mehr bedürfen.

Kann ein begabter Spökenkieker mich über die Tragweite von "Schicht"
aufklären? Danke!



"Schichtig" also exists in Dutch with the same meaning: swift, shy.
Ultimately derives from "geschieden" (D), "geschehen" (G), whose basic
meaning must have been "to happen lightning fast" (cf. Dutch word for
thunderbolt = bliksemschicht). The meaning "shy" may have partially been
influenced by "schüchtern" (G), "schuchter" (D), but this is ultimately a
different word.
Even though the English verb "to shift" looks like a perfect cognate (both
semantically and phonetically)...it is not. "to shift", "to shed" ~
"scheiden" (G).
Also unrelated is "to skip". Both "to shift" and "to skip" seem to denote a
sudden swift movement...but alas...no etymological relationship.



Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx
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From: Hannelore Hinz  < HanneHinz at t-online.de>

Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.04.13 (01) [German]



Ja, liebe Lowlands,

 ich bin schon da, mitgebracht Wossidlo/Teuchert Mecklenburgisches
Wörterbuch.



Das Wort *schichten* Auslegungen wie

1.a. Spr. (Sprache) einen Vergleich anstellen, bes. bei der
Erbteilung:'darmede schal he geschichtet unde gescheiden wezen van minem
Wive' (aus einem Testament 1406) D. SCHRÖD.

2. Steine u.ä. aufschichten; refl.:*Feldsteen würden reigenwis' henleggt, so
dat se sick schichten deden.*

3. die Zähne wechseln, die Milchzähne verlieren.

Scherzhaft nach dem Verlieren der Zähne im Alter: *he hett to'n tweeten Mal
schicht't*; unter Hinweis auf eine Zahnlücke sagte ein alter Mann *viellicht
mag ick jo ok noch schichten;*

von Tieren: *bi 't tweit Kalben sünd de Starken noch nich mit dat Schichten
farig*;

die Schafe *nah 't föfft Johr schichten se nich mihr.*

4. in etwas hineingeraten: *wenn Junggesellen in dei Leiw schichten.*

*5. *Zss.: *af-, dörch-, inschichten. *Vgl. *schiften. *Mnd. *schichten.*



Schichter Spr. Geldwechsler



schichtig: abwechselnd, umschichtig. Zss.: *ein-, üm-, witschichtig. *Mnd. *
schichttich.*



Das zweite Gesicht. Dort ziemlich mittig: "Kann hei schichtig kieken?" Mir
kommt der Gedanke, ein Vergleich, als spräche er mit zwei Zungen...



Ich möchte auch meinen, daß *schichten *von *scheiden *kommt, es ist aber
m.E. eher ein Wechsel was du, liebe Marlou mit "auseinanderhalten"
auslegst.



s. DUDEN  Das Herkunftswörterbuch <Etymologie> 2., völlig neu bearb. u. erw.
Aufl./von Günther Drosdowki. Mannheim; Wien; Zürich: Dudenverl., 1989 (Der
Duden; Bd.7) ISBN 3-411-20907-0   S. 628 unter *Schicht*



Und nun schlüpfe ich in die Rolle eines *Späukenkikers *

*Späuker, *1. Spukgestalt; elend aussehender Mensch; alter magerer Hammel;
Schelte für einen schlecht gekleideten elenden Menschen.

2. jem., der sich für spuk interessiert; der fest an Spuk glaubt:* de
Hollanner is 'n dullen Spöker.*

*Späukenkiker *ist ein Gespensterseher: *müßt ick irst tau 'm Späukenkiker
warden.*



*Spökenkiker *können in der *Olljohrsnacht* auf dem Kirchhof alle diejenigen
sehen, die im neuen Jahr sterben werden. (Güstrow).



Ohah, dor will ick nicks nich von weiten. HH (ick)



Best' Gräuten.



Hanne


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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hi, Marlou!

You wondered about the connection between the Low Saxon verb *schichten* in
the sense of what a *Spökenkieker* (“spook looker” = person with psychic
abilities) does. I can only offer an educated guess.

As you know, the noun *Schicht* basically means ‘layer’, ‘stratum’, and in
addition the meaning the cognate “shift” has in English: ‘work time
division’. This is similar in the case of Dutch *schift*, which is derived
from Middle Dutch *schicht*. In North Frisian we have *skeft* for ‘layer’
and *skaft* for ‘team of workers (working a certain shift)’. (The sounds *ch
* and *f* often alternate among the Lowlands languages, as they do in *Graft
* and *gracht*, and in the case of English “laugh”.)

The verb *schichten* can mean ‘to stack’, i.e. “to make layers”. As has been
mentioned already, there is the idea of “division” and “dividing” involved
here, as layers are really divisions, and a work shift is a division of
time. So, inherent is also the semantic value of “to divide”.

I have the feeling that the English noun “(work) shift” is of foreign
(Middle Dutch or, more likely, Middle Saxon) origin, for it appears in
writing no earlier than in the 14th century and gathers strength in the 15th
century. (I have in mind Hanseatic trading contacts that gave English words
like “trade” and “mate”?)

On the other hand, the verb “to shift” appears already in Old English as *
sciftan* in the sense of ‘to divide’, ‘to put in order’, the basic sense
shared with cognates in related languages. Old Frisian *skifta* took on the
meanings ‘to decide’ and ‘to test’, but Dutch, Low Saxon and German kept
using *schichten* predominantly in the sense of ‘to classify’, which
inherently means ‘to divide’.

What is rather interesting is that in the 14th century English starts
semantically extending “to shift” to mean ‘to move’, ‘to change’. This
happened around the time when the noun “(work) shift” appears in English.
This may be no coincidence. I am suggesting that both the introduction of
the noun and the semantic extension of the already existing English verb
happened under Low German (Dutch or Saxon) influence. Middle Dutch *
schichten* ~ *schiften* could in fact be used in the sense of ‘to turn’ (<=
“examine for classification”?); so the sense of “change” is there. In Low
Saxon dialects of Schleswig-Holstein and Mecklenburg you get the noun *
Schichtentiet* (*schichtentyd*) in the sense of ‘teething (period)’ of a
child, a period often referred to as *Zahnwechsel* (“tooth *change*”) in
German. So again there is the idea of “change”. Personally I believe that
English borrowed the noun “shift” in the specific sense of “working time
division” with the inherent idea of “change” (i.e. “change of shift”) which
then caused the already existing verb “to shift” to be extended to “to
change (time/turn or place)” and the noun became strengthened in its meaning
of “change” or “movement (from one thing to another)”. In many English
dialects you can use “to shift” in the sense of “to move (house)”.

Now how do psychics come into the picture? My hunch is that the idea of
“change” is basic here, namely the idea of shifting (= changing) from one
type of consciousness to another. We are dealing with people who are
supposedly able to transport themselves mentally (or psychically) to another
dimension, so to speak. Oftentimes they do so by going into trance, in which
case their everyday waking functions are set aside while their minds (or
souls) visit another sphere. This is part and parcel of shamanism all over
the world. In Europe the pre-Christian practice remained alive but was
mostly hidden from the eyes of the Church. But until more recent times even
the most devout of Christians did not doubt that this largely prohibited
psychic practice was possible, real and effective.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

•

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