LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.04.16 (01) [E/German]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 16 April 2009 - Volume 01
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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.04.15 (08) [E]

 Dear Lucas:

Subject: LL-L "Language Use"

You wrote:
"I've been pondering the last few days to what extent 'stock' and 'stone'
(in any Germanic or non-Germanic languages) are often paired together to
create a phrase."

Mark:
Tell me, to what extent does it concern your reflections that such a
construction could be an ancient Teutonic rhetoric device? Or something
called into being in that community by exposure (through the Vulgate) to the
psalmodic device of parallelism? Here are further examples. 'He smote his
enemy hip & thigh' '& destroyed them root & branch.' One is invited to
understand the two terms are conjoined to form a concept embracing & greater
than both.

Further examples; 'home & hearth' are often paired, to embrace the totality
of what concerns the householder. Also 'kith & kin', 'fields & pastures'
'hither & yon' & so on. Such constructions are widely used, often ad-libbed,
in Afrikaans, & it may I assume be the case also in Nederlands & other
Lowlands Languages at least.

Yrs,
Mark

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From: heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.04.15 10) [E]

from Heather Rendall  heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk

Lucas wrote "   In Norwegian "over stokk og stein" apparently means "out of
control".

This would seem to be the meaning too in  An Schwager Kronos  von Goethe

... über Stock und Stein den Trott

Rasch ins Leben hinein.

Heather

Worcester UK
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From: Hannelore Hinz  <HanneHinz at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.04.15  (10) [E]

Hallo Marlou und Lucac und auch Ron,

auch ich recherchierte  s t o c k  u n d   s t e i n   mit folgenden
Ergebnissen:

1. Krüger-Lorenzen *Deutsche Redensarten und was dahintersteckt*
*    *HEYNE SACHBUCH  Nr. 01/7187 6. Auflage 1990  ISBN 3-453-01611-4,
    nicht als Redensart aufgeführt.

2. http://www.redensarten-index.de/suche.php?suchbegriff=~~ueber%20Stock%
 <http://www.redensarten-index.de/suche.php?suchbegriff=%7E%7Eueber%20Stock%%C2%A0%C2%A0>
    20und%...:
    Im Mittelalter wurden die Gemeindegrenzen mit Stöcken und Landesgrenzen
mit
    Steinen gekennzeichnet. Wenn jemand *"über Stock und Stein" *lief, hatte
er also
    eine Grenze *über*schritten (Hinweis eines Nutzers).

3. M.E. liegt es nahe, daß es zu einer *Alliteration, Stabreim *tendiert
(Poetik).
    Alliteration schon bekannt um1300, (nlat. von lat. ad zu und littera
Buchstabe:
    gleichlautender Anlaut von betonten Stammsilben: Buchstabenreim.
    Z.B. aus der Alltagssprache: bei Wind und Wetter - mit Mann und Maus -
in Bausch
    und Bogen -  mit Kind und Kegel - Nd. Stein un Bein/Steen un Been -
(warum nicht
    auch) *über Stock und Stein...*

4. Wossidlo/Teuchert, keine Aufzeichnungen bisher gefunden.

    Un Ron, wat meinst du?

Wie immer beste Grüße.

Hanne

•

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