LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.08.22 (01) [EN]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 22 August 2009 - Volume 01
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From: Heinrich Becker <heinrich.becker at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.08.20 (06) [EN]

Dear all,

since a very long interuption filled with deep cuts in my personal life, I
would like to add some on that topic , I agree with:

An interesting item is: This "fake saxon" was the cradle of Standard "High"
German, that we use currently. It was last but not least Martin Luther
himself, whose "Meissner Kanzleideutsch" was taken as basic language for
translating the Holy Bible into a common  German language, which has
prevailed later on to its nowadays mode. As Lowlanders we are supposed to
complain about!

>From Berlin (Germany)

Heinrich Becker

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Hello, dear Heinrich!

I am so sorry you have gone through a difficult time! At any rate, it is
wonderful to hear from you again. Thanks for participating.

Thanks also for adding the important information above. I would like to add
to it that *Meißner Kanzleideutsch* (Meissen "Chancellery German", i.e.
administrative German of the city of Meissen) gave rise to the Low Saxon
name *Missingsch* ("Meissen-ish"). At first this meant the same thing
as *Meißner
Kanzleideutsch*. However, as the name *Meißner Kanzleideutsch* for "Standard
German" fell into disuse, the Low Saxon version *Missingsch* came to denote
"bad (High) German spoken by Low Saxon speakers". In further developments,
Missingsch came to be spoken as a native language variety, and its speakers
did not necessarily know Low Saxon. In other words, *Missingsch* now simply
means "German language variety with a strongly noticeable Low Saxon
substratum." And there are or used to be many local varieties; e.g.:

Bremen: http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/missingsch-bremen1.php
Hamburg: http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/missingsch-hamburg1.php
Wilhelmshaven:
http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/missingsch-wilhelmshaven.php

Introduction: http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/missingsch-info.php

Northern varieties of German, i.e. "High" German used in the original
Low-Saxon-speaking region, are to varying degrees influenced by Missingsch.
Perhaps it is more accurate to say that they are Missingsch varieties that
have been "cleaned up" to varying degrees. An example:

http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/deutsch-nord.php
Introduction: http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/deutsch-nord-info.php

Ruhr German is a type of Missingsch also, although it is not normally
referred to as such:
http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/ruhrdeutsch.php
Introduction: http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/ruhrdeutsch-info.php

The same goes for homegrown varieties of Berlin German (where the local
Brandenburg Low Saxon varieties have been extinct for a while).
Unfortunately, we do not have a Wren translation into any of these Berlin
varieties as yet.

(And, talking about such, I would absolutely *love* to have a Wren
translation in "fake Saxon", i.e. in a German variety of the Free State of
Saxony, especially with a sound file. Unlike apparently the majority of
Germans, I love listening to these German varieties. Well, then again, I'm
"weird" in that there is no language variety I dislike.)

In my estimation, the Missingsch situation is very similar to that of *
Stadsfrys* ("City Frisian") varieties of the Northern Netherlands. These are
city varieties of Dutch with more of less strong West (Westerlauwer) Frisian
substrata. These grew among Frisian-speaking townsfolk as Dutch came to be
imposed in their communities. Nowadays, most of their speakers do not speak
Frisian. As in the case of Missingsch, these varieties are fading away, or
are at least being "cleaned up," as a result of Dutch language formal
education and mass media. An example of *Stadsfrys*:

Ljouwert (Leeuwarden):
http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/stadsfrys-liwwarders.php
Introduction: http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/stadsfrys-info.php

I have a feeling that there is an equivalent situation in Scotland,
involving an array and a range of Scottish English varieties with Scots
substrata. However, I imagine that it is far more difficult to distinguish
Scottish English from Scots, because (1) English and Scots are perhaps more
closely related than are Low Saxon to German and Frisian to Dutch, and (2)
it may be impossible to draw a dividing line between the two. Furthermore,
let me go out on a limb here and propose that Scottish English itself is a
type of "advanced" Scottish Missingsch when seen within the context of
English globally. More precisely, I propose that "Standard" Scottish English
is the English equivalent of "Standard" Northern German. (See above.) I
would be very interested to hear what others think about this, especially
our Scottish friends.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

P.S.: By the way, about the city of Meissen (famous for its porcelain) ...
Its name began as a Slavic-Germanic blend, as its Latin equivalent
*Misena *still
suggests. It comes from Late Old German or Early Middle German Misenaha ("**
Mi**s’a** *brook/rivulet") containing German *aha* > *Ach* (related to
Romance **agwa* > *aqua ~ agua* 'water'). The name of the "brook" itself is
Slavic, more precisely Old Sorbian. The "brook" itself is *Meisa* in German,
which I consider based on Slavic **Mi**s’a* (my reconstruction). Other names
of the city: Upper Sorbian *Mišno*, Lower Sorbian *Mišnjo*, Czech *Míšeň*,
Polish *Miśnia*.

•

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