LL-L "Etymology" 2008.12.31 (11) E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 31 December 2008 - Volume 11
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From: Mike Morgan <mwmosaka at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Orthography" 2008.12.31 (05) E]

First, of course:

Happy Kaapse klopse for all those in Capetown.

And for the rest of us poor souls:

Happy 2009, Year of the Ox ... and so OXOXOX to all of you!

As for Sandy's comments:

> but my broadband is in a mess at the moment, it only seems to
> come up late at night, and then only sometimes.

Can sympathize muchly with that one; NOW having changed connections
after coming back from abroad, it SEEMS to be much better, but we'll
see.

> In my experience, most linguists would rather hit themselves over the
> head with a brick for enlightenment than do science  :)

Actually, i prefer a big heavy dictionary!

> I wouldn't even say we have a way of writing things phonetically. The
> IPA is just an extended alphabet for refined phonemics.

Yes, it CAN be. BUT it can also be quite refined phonetically (as
refined as the transcriber feels like taking the trouble to be). IPA
has LOTS of diacriticas at its disposal when desired.

That said, as a Sign Theoretic linguist, my general feeling is "why
bother?" IF here is anything inside the head of speakers (including
signers), then it certainly NOT phonetic entities/details. So AS A
LINGUIST, phonemics (phonology) is all that is really interesting (to
ME) in the final analysis: the SYSTEM, and its pieces (but, the pieces
ONLY in relation to the other pieces and to the system as a whole).

Okay, THAT said, as an avid (addicted?) language LEARNER, phonetics
(the less broad the IPA transcription the better!) are wonderful. NO
substitute though for hearing (spoken language) / seeing (sign
language) the utterance ... preferable hundreds of times (so that the
acceptable range of phonetic variation can be grasped (and i doN't
look like I have  too much of a foreign acccent).

> Even phonemic orthographies tend to be supported with a certain amount
> of morphography.

Yes, Even Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian (BCS), whose famous dictum is
"write as you speak" ultimately allowed some morphophonemics to "leak"
in. Which is natural since speakers the system that speakers ahve in
their heads (or whereever) includes BOTH phonological and
morphological levels (don't know of too many orthographies that
include syntax in the mix ... ).

> Are you trying to say that these things are all bad?

Bad for who(m)? I think for the child learning to write their own
native tongue (hand), the more phonetic the "alphabet", the WORSE.
Only MEANINGFUL distinctions need to be included (that is, phonemes),
and while YES, morhemic distinctions CAN be helpful at times (e.g. the
morphophonemically inclined Russian as opposed to the phonemically
inclided BCS), they are not necessary -- anymore than it is NECESSARY
that i distinguish MARY MARRY MERRY in my speech for people (of my
dialect anyway) to understand me.

For literacy, my experience (having been involved at some level in
basic literacy programs for 3 very different languages), the fewer the
symbols the better -- as long as not TOO many distinctions (REAL
distinctions) are blurred. The human mind is a marvelously analytic
organ, and even Arabic can be learned (although i personally haven't
taken the effort! Urdu is about as far as I have ventured, and find it
not all that hard, maybe because, like a nattive-speaking child, i
already have the system (i.e. HINDI) in my brain, so can fill in the
blanks)

Okay, back to bed for me ... nursing a New Years cold (and NO, it is
not a "cold" -- aka hangover)!

Peace and all that to you all in the new year!

Mike || マイク || माईक || Мика || માઈક || მაიქ || ਮਾਈਕ
מייק || மாஇக் || Miqueu || U C > || ما یک || Mihangel
================
Dr Michael W Morgan
Managing Director Ishara Foundation Mumbai (Bombay), India
++++++++++++++++
माईकल मोर्गन (पी.एच.डी.) मेनेजिंग डॉयरेक्टर ईशारा फॉउंडेशन (मुंबई )
++++++++++++++++
茂流岸マイク(言語学博士) イシャラ基金の務理事・事務局
長 ムンバイ(ボンベイ)、インド

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Orthography

Thanks, my dear "cold"-afflicted brother Mike.

I went to sleep early, fully expecting through the transition to 2009, only
to wake up to the last 20 or so minutes of the old year in this time zone.

May this for me less than spectacular year bring blessings to all of us.

As for orthography, more about it next year, which here will begin in ONE
MINUTE!

Cheeeeerio, Lowlanders, and best wishes to all of you!

Reinhard/Ron
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