LL-L "Etymology" 2009.01.15 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 14 January 2009 - Volume 02
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From: Joachim Kreimer-de Fries <Kreimer at jpberlin.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.01.15 (02) [E]

                       ? - to greet = to tax the greatness, degree, power -
?

Goude dag un riikdom düs nigge jaar, Deyplanders,
Good day and richdom in the new year, Lowlanders,

shortly after it's beginning I made a discovery, accidentally, but I'm not
certain.
Please rebut/confute my speculation:

Are "to greet / gröüten / grüßen" and "great / graut / groß"
not only similar but also cognates in theyr original meaning?

Might be that is already self-evident for you or pure phantasy. How I came
to the finding:

In the Book »Plattdeutsche Briefe etc.«[1] of my favorite Westphalian author
F. W. Lyra from 1845, I found, at the and of the first letter:

"Grüüßet Liisken duusent mal van mi." (Say 1000 greetings from me to
Liisken)

Because Lyra was a master of Plaat, I wondered about this foreign, HiGerm
word and ask me if perhaps also "gröüten" could be only a loanword in LS.

That is not the case. I found in the Klöntrup Dictionary (made 20-30 years
before) the words »Grout« [greeting], »gröüten«. But it seems, that it was
not very usual to use it, at least not in alltheday's way of English
"greetings" or HiGerman today. (Perhaps, because the original meaning of
gröüten was still in mind?)

I had a look in Schiller-Lübben Middel Low German Dictionary and found:

grôt, grût (m.), grote (f.): Gruß, wese grot: gegrüßt.

Lübben's Handdictionary of  MiLoGerman it looks as if Wf. »gröüten« [to
greet] and »graut, Grätte« [great(ness) etc.] are from the same radical:

be-groten: 1. begrüssen. 2. die Grösse von etwas festsetzen, taxieren,
schätzen.
               [1. to greet so. 2. to rate, tax the greatness of sth.]

be-grotinge, Begrüssung.

groten, gruten, sw. v. grüssen, ansprechen, zur Bewillkommnung etc.,
ansprechen, auffordern zum Kampfe; Hunde hetzen.

               [to greet, welcome so., speak to so., ask so. to fight] (!)

groten, sw. v. 1. gross machen, erheben. 2. die Grösse bestimmen, ansetzen,
taxieren.
               [1. to raise sth., make great. 2. to determine, tax the
greatness/bigness]


Finally, consulting the "Online Etymological Dictionary" http://
www.etymonline.com/index.php
gave

- for great:

O.E. great "big, coarse, stout," from W.Gmc. *grautaz (cf. O.S. grot,
O.Fris. grat, Du. groot, Ger. groß "great"). Originally "big in size,
coarse," it took over much of the sense of M.E. mickle, and is now largely
superseded by big and large except for non-material things. (...)

- for greet:

O.E. gretan "to come in contact with" (in sense of "attack, accost" as well
as "salute, welcome"), from W.Gmc. *grotja (cf. O.S. grotian, O.Fris. greta,
Du. groeten, O.H.G. gruozen, Ger. grußen "to salute, greet"), perhaps
originally "to resound" (via notion of "cause to speak"), causative of
P.Gmc. *grætanan, root of O.E. grætan (Anglian gretan) "weep, bewail," and
greet still means "cry, weep" in Scot. & northern England dialect. Grætan is
probably also the source of the second element in regret.

=> That is, again many similarities or even sameness (s. O.S. grot=great and
grotian=greet), but nothing is said about an identical radical.

My hypothesis is:

"to greet / gröüten / grüßen" and "great / graut / groß" have the same
radical.

Saxon »grotian ... groten«  had originally the sense of »to tax degree,
power«,
then also »acknowledge/appreciate so.'s degree, greatness« and became
finally the notion - verb and noun - for the first interaction when
strangers, later any people came across / encountered / met each other.

This meaning had already long time ago become independent and unconscious of
the original meaning in many Germanic influenced languages like English,
Dutch and German,

finally becoming (at least in HiGerman) the introduction formula itself:

»Grüß dich, grüezi, grüß Gott« and even the complimentary close (!) of
letters etc.:

"Greetings", "Mit freundlichen Grüßen".

joachim

PS.
Distributed Proofreading of  F. W. Lyra's Low Saxon Letters etc ...,
the main book of Westphalian language:

[1]Whoever is disposed to know somewhat more on classical Low Saxon and
Westphalian and is willing to contribute to a sooner completion of this
project should join us at:

http://www.pgdp.net/c/project.php?id=projectID49403e70a3d57&detail_level=4

To participate in the project, you have to click the Register link right at
the top (if not already participant in one the pgdp proofreader projects).
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