LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.06.05 (08) [EN]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 05 June 2009 - Volume 08
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Language Codes: lowlands-l.net/codes.php
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From: Diederik Masure <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.06.04 (07) [EN]

> From: Roger Hondshoven <rhondshoven at yahoo.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.05.26 (05) [EN]
> Roger Thijs raised the topic of " *Verkavelingsvlaams,
Verkavelingsnederlands". In my opinion the main feature of this kind
of (reprehensible)
substandard Belgian Dutch, being neither standard Dutch nor dialect,
consists of using the inversed verbal forms for the second person, which
usually sound something like 'gade mee, doede gij' (ga je , doe jij). I
pride myself that my native tongue, Tiens (and also nearby Hoegaardens) is
the only dialect in all of Brabantish that has been spared this kind of what
I like to call "kreupel Nederlands". We say "gaat ge, doet gij" , *[Äx«] [d«
U xEù]* **I'm qu**ite sure a lot of people might want to disagree. I'm
looking forward to your opinion and remarks.
PS I hope the phonetic text will prove to be legible.*
**
**
Roger, I first wanted to say I didn't beleive you, but I did check the maps
in Weijnen's Nederlandse Dialectkunde and indeed the far south-east of
Vlaams-Brabant does not have the -de ending in the 2nd person as only
Brabantish dialects. What I still strongly disagree on however is that you
should take pride out of lacking this feature, finding that all other 2.7
mil Belgian Brabanders (and plenty more Dutch Brabanders) talk crippled
dutch because of this.
I don't say west-flems or Limburgers should take over this feature if it's
not part of their dialect, but in our 'contreien' it has been there since
the oldest Middelnederlands so at least historically (and etymologically) it
is at least equally correct as the (in my eyes forced) gaat ge. (I actually
hate people around here saying gaat ge or gaat gij because they think it
sounds more 'correct dutch'.)
I want to see one good reason why your gaat ge/gij would be "better dutch"
or even "better" in any way.
Greetings,
Diederik

•

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