LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.06.08 (02) [EN-NL]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 08 June 2009 - Volume 02
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From: Roger Hondshoven <rhondshoven at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.06.05 (03) [NL]

Hallo Roland,

Bedankt voor de reactie. Ik was ermee bekend (ik heb namelijk een paar
West-Vlaamse vrienden) dat het West-Vlaams ook gespaard is van die
vreselijke 'de-vormen' en dat de je-vormen tot de gewone spreektaal behoren

Vriendelijke groeten,

Roger Hondshoven
Diest (East-Brabant) Belgium

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From: Roger Hondshoven <rhondshoven at yahoo.com>
 Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.06.05 (08) [EN]

Hi Diederik,

Thanks for giving your view on this issue. Of course, I had expected
dissenting opinions. I simply gave my personal preference and I have no
problem with people seeing things differently. I know that a form like '
zegde' is the exact counterpart of Middle Dutch 'seghdi '. Up to about 30
years ago 'ge, 'gij' were perfectly acceptable forms in Standard Dutch  ( in
its Southern variety). Nowadays these forms are somewhat discredited, though
most people use them. When I talk to friends in Diest I use them in my kind
of general Dutch (I don't venture to speak the local lingo, as I'm afraid I
would bungle it). There is a strong tendency these days  among politicians
to speak with 'je' (although for some mysterious reason 'jij' and 'jou' are
shunned)  especially when talking in front of a microphone or TV-camera.
Unfortunately quite a few stumble when they revert to 'u' as an object form.
I tend to think then: they had better stick to 'ge, gij' if they can't
consistently use 'je'. When I expressed my dislike of enclitic '-de', I was
mainly thinking of its use in Flemish TV-serials. They pretend to be
standard (?) Dutch, but in fact they are in some kind of preposterous
non-language (nep-Nederlands) . That is the sort of speech I said I
abhorred. You may like it, but I don't.
I did take exception at your claim (based on Weijnen's conviction that "the
far south-east of Vlaams-Brabant does not have the -de ending in the
2ndperson ".
This is pertinently incorrect as I know firsthand. I was born and raised in
Tienen, but my mother originated from Melkwezer, a small village in the
exact centre of  'Getelands', which is spoken in a region somewhat west of
the river Grote Gete to the  Kleine Gete (Diest is not in this region). I
know the language of this region. So I spoke Tiens and I learnt my mother's
dialect. You can take my word for it  when I say that ' contrary to what
Weijnen claims, the enclitic -de is used in all of this Getelands . In
allof Getelands but
not in Tienen and Hoegaarden (and perhaps in a few adjacent villages of
Tienen like Kumtich an Hakendover. For decades I haven't lived in Tienen,
but when I, rarely,   meet old friends from Tienen I speak Tiens.With
relatives from Melkwezer, whom I see more often, I speak their dialect. So
in these circumstances I use the enclitic -de myself. I think it is
self-evident to use it in dialect, but not in a form of speech that goes
beyond the local sphere.

Greetings,

Roger Hondshoven
Diest (East-Brabant) Belgium

•

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