LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.02 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 02 May 2009 - Volume 02
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From: Hellinckx Luc <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica"

Beste Lucas,
Re "Are you still working on that?":

You wrote:

Although I'm American and have thus heard it my entire life, I think of it
as nearing the end of a really good meal that you want to finish but are
having troubles fitting in your stomach ; )  It _is_ work to finish some
meals, even when you want to!
I think it would also be neat to look into the semantics of the phrase "work
on" and also to see how the instances when it is used relate to each other.
 Clearly when we hear the phrase we don't think of any bad connotations
regarding the word "work", or think of what we're doing as something that we
don't want to do.

In Dutch you can also say "iets naar binnen werken" when you want to stress
the mechanical act of eating. For example: "De arbeiders werkten hun eten
schrokkerig naar binnen omdat ze maar weinig schafttijd hadden" (note: this
"schaft" is related to the whole schoftig/schochtig, schuftig/schuchtig,
schiftig/schichtig-complex that we discussed earlier on).

The context of a restaurant is however completely different. As far as I
know, people don't bring their own food to a restaurant. If a waiter serves
you food (casually or not, it's still a service, an act in the end), he is
there to actually bring and take it away (unless you want him to wrap the
rest in a box...another americanism). Many people here regard wining and
dining as something enjoyable, something festive. That good mood would be
entirely spoilt, as soon as they felt that a waiter is urging them on,
asking organisational questions. No matter how friendly his tone, it could
break the magic.

Are you sure this same phrase is also in use in high-class American
restaurants?

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: Mari Sarv <mari at haldjas.folklore.ee>
 Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.01 (06) [E]

Beste Luc,

(How one expression can tell more about ethics than a whole dissertation)

I couldn’t believe it too.

Is that, how you feel about work?

Then, what’s the value of „work” in your society?

Don’t you just like the things you have to do in your life or is it more
general?

I have been taught to work only with love, commitment and „eerbied” towards
it.

Which are the connotations of the word „work” in lowlands languages?

Mari Sarv

Aberdeen, Scotland

From: Hellinckx Luc <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Delectables"

 OK, the question may have somewhat lost its initial meaning, but to a high
degree it still reflects the predominant value of "work" in American
society.

To work?!?

It really sounds as if "eating" is some necessary evil that you have to get
over with as soon as possible. Something that you may even have to feel
guilty about? Is eating considered like a job? In my opinion, it's the
waiter who should be working and not the customer. Part of his job is to
serve and make customers feel at ease. To my knowledge, "Ober" is not short
for "Obersturmbahnführer" ;=)

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
 Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.01 (06) [E]

I just want to comment on an idiom that I've noticed recently in cafes and
bars etc. If I'm ordering something, I tend say "Can I have a.....please?"
or "I'll have a ......please", or even "A......please".

These days I often hear "Can I get a.....please?".  It seems to
be age-related, mainly people under 30-ish as far as I can tell (I'm in my
fifties).

I can't recall it being common usage in the past, and it doesn't sound
familiar from American films or TV.

Anybody have any thoughts or experiences on this? Is it perhaps a common
construction in some other language that has found its way into English?

Paul Finlow-Bates

Derby
England

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Idiomatica

Luc, Luke, Mari and the rest of "you lot" (to use a British expression), we
seem to be dealing with customs and attitudes reflected in idiom.

Yes, Americans, too, go to restaurants on special occasions, such as when
dating and celebrating. And, yes, you're likely to find that waiters use a
less familiar tone in the more "upscale" restaurants, many of which feature
European cuisines and ambiances. A very casual American tone would probably
be perceived as non-authentic. (It is only in that sort of restaurant that I
have ever encountered truly snooty waiters *à l'européenne*.) The majority
of restaurants -- and we ought to call them more loosely "eateries" -- have
casual atmospheres, are often referred to as "family restaurants".

You need to bear in mind that eating out is far more common in North
America, or even *the *Americas, than in Europe, and there are far more
small, casual eateries, including the so-called "delis" in Northeastern
America, which are relatively inexpensive (and I stress "relatively") and
are also meeting places (similar to the old-time *Gaststätten* in Germany).
And nowadays there are all those "food malls" everywhere, many of them with
very inexpensive food. It is often frustrating for American tourists that
casual, inexpensive eateries are not easily found or recognizable in Europe.
It is only the more savvy among them that do prior homework and thus seek
out pubs in Britain and Ireland, bistros in French-speaking areas, *
Gaststätten* in German-speaking areas, etc.

Many Americans eat out all the time. Many do not even know how to cook. (If
they don't eat out they'll heat store-bought frozen dinners in their
microwave ovens.) So eating out casually is similar to eating at home.
That's in a different class from the occasional visit to a fancy restaurant.

Perhaps this explains it a bit better.

Paul, I have a feeling that "Can I get a.....please?" predominates in the
States.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

•

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