LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.03 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 03 May 2009 - Volume 02
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.02 (04) [E]

Luc, Karl, Reinhard and all;

Re the issue of waiters taking away plates, I'd say that in 90% or more pubs
and restaurants in England and Scotland, the staff will ask you if you've
finished.  No particular phrase: "Can I take that for you?" "Everything OK
here? shall I take the plate?", even "are you done here?" etc.  They see it
as being helpful; as Ron says: they assume you don't want a dirty cold plate
sat in front of you, and in my case at least, they're right.

And while I can't remember for certain, I'm pretty sure I've had the same
thing in Germany and Austria.

As to the specific use of "working on" food, I'm not sure I'd assign such
deep meaning to it, whether in the USA or elsewhere.

Interestingly, as a kid I was taught that the polite thing to do when
finished eating was to place the knife and fork together on the plate, in
the "6:30" position as it were.  That was supposed to signal "I'm done".
The custom has probably vanished now, though I still do it anyway from
habit.

Paul
Derby
England

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.02 (03) [E]

From: Mike Morgan
<mwmosaka at gmail.com<http://uk.mc264.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mwmosaka@gmail.com>
>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.02 (02) [E]
..... but to my (long Asianized) American ears "Can I get a ... please?"
definitely has a takeout ... or fast food ring to it ... as in "get it to
go".

.....the American tendency to transform expressions for "obtaining" into
ones for "possessing" ("I've got 1 sister and 1 brother" ... rather than
just "I have" ... although in fact I did not "get" them)...:

  That's an interesting one.  Playing it in my head, "I've got two brothers"
and "I have two brothers" sound equally right.  I'd probably say the former,
and write the latter.

Paul
Derby
England

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From: LUCAS ANNEAR <annear at wisc.edu>
 Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.02 (04) [E]

Dear Luc,

As Ron said:  In this country, wait staff is usually
> instructed to keep guests' tables neat at all times, especially if a table
> is small and would be cluttered with too many unused dishes on it. Plates
> and dishes with cold, leftover food on them are considered unsightly
> in this country, which is why waiters are supposed to remove them as soon
as their
> status is clear. This is so especially if dessert and/or coffee is next.

Indeed, just because our plates our gone doesn't mean that we have to be!
 And nobody would ask that debated question if it didn't look like the
customer had given up on their plate.  And if the generalization that you
mentioned about the American work ethic is that we're hard workers, I don't
think anybody would take that as an insult.  But despite our work ethic
(which I assure you is not shared by all), and despite what the waiter might
say, when it comes to eating out, we're relaxing.  I'd also like to point
out that the Norwegians (at leas some) say "bra jobba" for "well done".
And as Ron said, it is just an expression.  I would say it is one which we
hardly consider the constituents of.  Yesterday, I used a phrase that I use
quite often: "as all get out" (e.g. "He was runnin fast as all get out",
"That pop was flat as all get out.").  The phrase indicates a high degree of
something (i.e. "he was running really fast", "The pop/soda was really
flat").  My friend that I was talking to had no idea what I meant by that
phrase, and I have no idea how "as all get out" comes together to form a
sort of superlative, but it certainly has nothing to do with getting out of
anything.  I think maybe more than anything, the question "you still workin
on that?" speaks to the fact that phrases are phrases and we tend to forget
any original association they may have had.

Regards,
Lucas Annear
Madison, Wisconsin, USA

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: Idiomatica

Luc,

I should clarify something:

When I wrote:

Besides, in Chinese eateries waiters snatched my dishes away plenty of
times, *without even asking*.

and

I had similar experiences in more casual Turkish and Arabic eateries.

I meant restaurants in China, Turkey and Arabic-speaking countries, not
Chinese, Turkish and Arabic restaurants in other countries. However, the
atmosphere is similar in some of our local Chinese eateries whose clientele
consists mostly of Chinese immigrants, and those are the joints I prefer.

I think Luke makes an important point when he says that Americans usually
want to relax when they eat out. What is the usual affair in Continental
Europe is called "formal dining" here, and most restaurants offering it are
European-style. My feeling is that most Americans find those intimidating
and not relaxing, and many jokes are made about encounters with European
waiters in such places (some of which I myself have had). The usual
stereotype is snooty "as all get out", to borrow Luke's phrase, which I
myself use on occasional too.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

•

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