LL-L "Language politics" 2010.12.02 (01) [EN]

Thu Dec 2 20:52:00 UTC 2010

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L O W L A N D S - L - 02 December 2010 - Volume 04
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From: Mike Morgan <mwmbombay at gmail.com>

Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2010.12.01 (04) [AF-EN]

Goeie naand!

Elsie (<ezinsser at mweb.co.za>) het gevra:

I like to sit and watch to improve my limited knowledge (had a few youth
friends who signed) and often wonder about how similar (or not) SA sign
language was compared to, say, Indian or US sign language?

Well, I would say I could follow maybe half of what was said on TV (and much
more than half in my few person-to-person encounters with SASL... natural,
given that Deaf are good at adjusting to non-native signers and negotiating
meaning, etc). And I would say that the DTV (deaf signers) were easier to
follow than the hearing sign language interpreters on the newscasts (though
the ones on eTV seemed to be a bit more American Sign Language influenced).

As for what sort of language SASL is, I quote Helen Morgan (no relation!):
*"Since there is little historical evidence, it is presumed that South
African Sign Language has a mixture of the Irish influence from the
Dominican Irish nuns, and British influence as well as the American
influence..."* (Morgans, Helen (1999), *Where did South African Sign
Language Originate?* <http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/10228199908566144>, Language
Matters, *30*, South Africa: Routledge Informa Ltd, pp. 53--58)

And "presumed" is the operative word...

Note that BOTH American and Irish SL had at their beginnings a heavy input
from french SL, whereas British SL is "completely" different ... and Indian
Sign language is even more completely different still!

              mwm || U C > || Mike  (aka Dr Michael W Morgan)

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soon @ IGNOU-UCLan New Delhi, India, Allah, YHWH & Ganesh willing
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     *Sadang kayu di rimbo tak samo tinggi, kok kunun manusia.*

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From: Mike Morgan <mwmbombay at gmail.com>

Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2010.12.01 (04) [AF-EN]

addenda:

Ethnologue has THiS to say about SASL:

"[sfs] 12,100 deaf persons including 6,000 Black, 2,000 English white, 2,000
Afrikaans white, 1,200 Coloured, 900 Indian (VanCleve 1986).
*Dialects<http://www.ethnologue.com/ethno_docs/introduction.asp#dialect>
:* The North British sign system was used for the deaf in white
English-speaking families. In 1881 a school for Afrikaans-speaking families
began using British Sign Language
[bfi<http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=bfi>].
Several dialects are used unofficially in different schools. 9 sign language
systems, 60% related to British or Australian sign languages
[asf<http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=asf>],
few to American Sign Language
[ase<http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=ase>
]."

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From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>

Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2010.12.01 (04) [AF-EN]

From: "Elsie Zinsser" <ezinsser at mweb.co.za>

Marcus, I think you are being indoctrinated into believing that ‘white race’
equals ‘wealthy person’. Is that not racist?

Whites are not automatically rich and Blacks are not automatically poor. But
there's a relevant statistical correlation between race and wealth. That's a
fact.

By the way, I have never used the word "upliftment". I'm not like: "White
man, go rescue the Black man, for he cannot rescue himself." This thread
started with a newspaper article about how English puts pressure on
Afrikaans in South African education. I asked a question about the role of
the Black languages in that context and Mark Dreyer answered with a rant
about how everything worsened in the education system since the end of
Apartheid. According to Mark's assessment most Black language schools are
shitty and Black parents therefore send their children to Afrikaans and
English schools. And that's what I tried to target. Improve the Black
language schools.

Marcus Buck

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From: Mike Wintzer <k9mw at yahoo.com>

Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2010.12.01 (04) [AF-EN]

Hi Elsie, Marcus, Mark, Roger and all you others,

Just to let you know that although (until now) a

silent observer, I am following your discussions

with fascination.

And by the way, my knowledge of Dutch allows

me to read Afrikaans without problems

(an observation which other speakers of Dutch

have no doubt made over and over).

Keep up the good posting!

Mike Wintzer

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