LL-L "Grammar" 2010.12.16 (01) [EN]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 16 December 2010 - Volume 01
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From: Mike Morgan <mwmbombay at gmail.com>

Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2010.12.15 (04) [EN-NDS]



re: split/unsplit verbs

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

Subject: Grammar

Du musst das Rauchen *aufgeben*.



(You must give up smoking.)

*Gib* das Rauchen *auf*!
(Give up smoking!)


Or to give an English example, taking into consideration that Ron is in
Seattle and I used to live in Japan:
1) I can outthrow Ichiro.
2) I can throw Ichiro out.
;-)

                mwm || U C > || Mike  (aka Dr Michael W Morgan)
===========================================================
soon @ IGNOU-UCLan New Delhi, India ... Allah, YHWH & Ganesh willing
===========================================================

"I have become my own version of an optimist. If I can't make it through one
door, I'll go through another door - or I'll make a door. Something terrific
will
come no matter how dark the present." (R. Tagore)



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From: heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>

Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2010.12.15 (06) [EN]



from Heather Rendall  heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk

 re As for “Have you any wool?”, although quite archaic, is still used
in some English dialects or rather sociolect, especially in England.


Am I being very dim here but what is the problem with this construction?

Have you any matches?    seems just as used as Have you got any
matches?   or Do you have any matches?

I might ask a shopkeeper Do you have any non halogen lightbulbs? but
might just as well ask Have you any non-halogen light bulbs?

It doesn't seem to me to be archaic at all. I use it and I hear it all
the time.

re the use of auxiliary 'do'. I thought we discussed this ages ago
because I seem to remember writing in about the experience I had in a
seminar when I suggest that English alone uses this construction and an
Austrian in the group contradicted me and pointed out that in her
dialect they used it a lot - Ich tue arbeiten. Since then I ahve learnt
that it seems to be widespread throughout dialects of Europe.

re the celtic connection. I am quite sure there is a connection between
Welsh & English that gave rise to the is .....ing    construction but
does Welsh also use a form with 'do'? My Welsh doesn't get me that
far.

best wishes

Heather

Worcester UK



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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>

Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2010.12.15 (05) [EN]



Much of this use of "do", "did" etc is clearly much more recent than
suggestions of Anglo-Saxon imports or old Celtic influence allow.



For Middle and early Modern English, a construction like "brought you my
hat?" "have you a cloak?" would be quite normal.  Sounds odd today - in fact
most people would call it "old-fashioned", which is significant.  We would
usually use "did you bring my hat?", "have you got a cloak/do you have a
cloak".



A similar thing has ahppened with our use of auxilliary + infinitive: "I'm
going" rather than the older "I go", which is of course more like German or
Dutch.  Oddly we still use that form in a future sense, especially for
habitual cases:



"Thought you were at a language class" - "No, I go on Wednesdays"



Paul

Derby

England



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