LL-L "Technica" 2010.02.19 (01) [EN]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 19 February 2010 - Volume 01
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From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
 Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.02.18 (04) [EN] --> technical

 Dear Ron, and other users interested

Not to reply to the points below, but to note that it seems that somehow
(!?) for the last 2 days', I see the messages in a good encoding, for the
first time in a long time. Even the Sanskrit. Great!!

Hope it stays as good....

Regards,

Henno

From: Diederik Masure <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.02.18 (03) [EN]


Ron wrote:
Apparently there is not connection between this and "same", *samen*, etc.
(in the sense of 'together', 'equal', etc.)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

RE:
On what ground/source would you say they aren't related? At least according
to the online OED they are. I know they aren't always 100% correct in my
experience but I don't see a reason why they'd be wrong here.

Oh and "some" > sommige "some" in Dutch gets a -t- in most(?) Southern
dialects, Antw. "soemmigte", just like "mennigte" (many, Dutch 'menige'),
ennigte/iënigte? ('some', Dutch 'enige'). These forms are really oldfashoned
dialect now tho (at least in Antwerp and area, now replaced by "soemmige"
loaned from Dutch with the regular om > oem adaptation).

*same* <http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=same> *[image: Look up same
at Dictionary.com]* <http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=same>
perhaps abstracted from O.E. *swa same* "the same as," but more likely from
O.N. *same, samr* "same," both from P.Gmc.**samon*(cf. O.S., O.H.G., Goth. *
sama;* O.H.G. *samant,* Ger. *samt* "together, with," Goth. *samana*
"together,"
Du. *zamelen* "to collect," Ger.*zusammen* "together"), from PIE
**samos* "same,"
from base **sem-* "one, together" (cf. Skt. *samah* "even, level, similar,
identical;" Avestan *hama* "similar, the same;" Gk. *hama* "together with,
at the same time," *homos* "one and the same,"*homios* "like, resembling," *
homalos* "even;" L. *similis* "like;" O.Ir. *samail* "likeness;" O.C.S. *
samu* "himself"). O.E. had lost the pure form of the word; the modern word
replaced synonymous *ilk*
<http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=ilk> (q.v.).
Colloq. phrase *same here* as an exclamation of agreement is from 1895.*Same
difference* curious way to say "equal," is attested from 1945.




*some* <http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=some> *[image: Look up some
at Dictionary.com]* <http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=some>
O.E. *sum* "some," from P.Gmc. **sumas* (cf. O.S., O.Fris., O.H.G. *sum*,
O.N. *sumr*, Goth. *sums*), from PIE base **sem-* "one, as one" (cf. Skt. *
samah* "even, level, similar, identical;" Gk.
*hamo-*<http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=hamo->;
see *same* <http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=same>).
"The word has had greater currency in English than in the other Teutonic
languages, in some of which it is now restricted to dialect use, or
represented only by derivatives or compounds, as WFris. *sommige, somlike*,
Du. *sommige*(also *somtiids, sommijlen* 'sometimes'), LG *sömige* (G. dial.
 *summige*)." [OED]
Meaning "remarkable" is attested from 1808, Amer.Eng. colloquial. A
possessive form is attested from 1565, but always was rare. Many combination
forms (*somewhat*, *sometime*, *somewhere*) were in M.E. but often written
as two words till 17-19c.;*somehow* is from 1664 (first attested in
phrase *somehow
or other*); *something* once was very common as an adv. (cf. *something like
*).*Somebody* in the sense of "important person" dates from 1566. *Somewhen*
 is rare and since 19c. used almost exclusively in combination with more
common compounds. *Get some* "have sexual intercourse" is attested 1899 in a
quote attributed to Abe Lincoln from c.1840.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

I think you're right, Diederik.

Although it is not very specific about it, the OED implies that there may be
a basic relationship between the two.

But there are very early divergent forms, which may or may not involve *
ablaut*:

Indo-European: *semo 'some' vs. *somo 'equal', 'level'
Sanskrit: सम (sama) ‘any’, ‘every’ vs. समा (samā) 'equal', 'level', 'same'
Greek: ἁμο- (hamo-) ‘some-’ vs. ὁμόσ (homós) 'same'


Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Technica

Thanks, Henno.

I noticed at my end, too, that the encoding did not need to be adjusted upon
receipt.

Unfortunately, I still don't know what has been going on and what provoked
the change. I just followed my own routine of copying and pasting, but I
didn't want to say anything and possibly "jinx" it.

Just watch this or the following issue arriving all weird again ...

Hoping for the best,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA



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