LL-L "History" 2010.02.23 (07) [EN-NDS]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 23 February 2010 - Volume 07
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From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2010.02.23 (06) [DE-EN]

 From: Joachim <Osnabryg+Lowlands at googlemail.com<Osnabryg%2BLowlands at googlemail.com>
>

Subject: LL-L "History" 2010.02.23 (05) [EN, DE]

 Colonies of Charlemagne's deported Saxon families in Flanders & ?

 Hi again, Lowlanders,

 Am 22.02.2010, 20:49, hadde ik scriewen:

Am 22.02.2010 ümme 00:02 scraif Luc Hellinckx:

Beste Joachim, You wrote:

  Osnabrügge (a place where Widukint is still alive) => Berlin-Pankow

   oops, it was a spontaneous addition to my regular footer here …


 By doing some search for this post, I came to a website which' political
and historical seriousness I cannot judge and have no time to explore. But
there's an assertion in, for which I would be interested to have
affirmations or disproof about, if someone knows somewhat about this. On
http://www.deutschland-im-mittelalter.de/karl-krieg-sachsen.php
is written:

 Wittekind ließ sich hierauf taufen, und viele tausend Sachsen folgten
seinem Beispiel freiwillig. Viele tausend andere wurden heerdenweise mit dem
Schwerte in die Flüsse getrieben, und empfingen eine wahre Nottaufe. Dies
geschah im Jahre 786. Aber erst 18 Jahre darauf, im Jahre 804, wurde es in
dem Lande ganz ruhig, denn noch immer machten die heidnischen Sachsen dem
König der Franken viel zu schaffen. Um sie leichter in Gehorsam zu erhalten,
*ließ Karl 10,000 sächsische Familien nach Flandern, Frankreich und Italien
versetzen, wodurch eine Menge deutscher Kolonien in diesen Ländern
entstanden.* In Sachsen legte er Burgen und Bischofssitze an, aus denen nach
und nach Städte wurden, wie Magdeburg, Halle, Bremen, Münster und Osnabrück.
(Accentuation by me)
 Has anybody knowledge of such early import/colonization of flemish (or
french or italian) territories by Saxon, caused by Charlemagne's
deportation?

 It interests me in the context of the controversiale issue of
"Saxon-LowFranconian dialect continuum".

I have heard about this claim too. Until now I have not come across actual
evidence that this is true. But it could be true anyways. If it is true, I
guess, we shouldn't speak about "colonies". Rather single settlements in
otherwise non-Saxon regions. Charlemagne wanted to render the Saxons
innocuous so he had no interest to create compact Saxon settlement areas. I
guess the single Saxon settlements were quite quickly assimilated.

According to de.Wikipedia legend claims that Frankfurt-Sachsenhausen was
settled by Saxons deported by Charlemagne. But the article also states that
there is no historical evidence for this.

What _did_ exist were Saxon settlements in France. But these predate
Charlemagne. See
<http://nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sassen_in_Gallien><http://nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sassen_in_Gallien>
.

Marcus Buck



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