LL-L "Vexillology" 2010.07.24 (04) [EN]

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*L O W L A N D S - L - 24 July 2010 - Volume 04
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk>

Subject: LL-L "Vexillology" 2010.07.24 (02) [EN]



I find it hard to believe that Ron's very original, peaceable and
appropriate idea for a flag has received so little appreciation (but
thanks to Jacqueline and Paul for "getting it", too).

To my mind traditional heraldry is just propaganda for the illiterate.

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/



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From: Hellinckx Luc <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>

Subject: LL-L "Vexillology"



Beste Ron,



You wrote:



Some tidbits of internationally lesser-known history pertaining to some
countries that feature crosses on their flags:



· From 1000 until 1852 there were no Jews in Norway because Jews and other
non-Christians where banned from the country.

· With the conclusion of the Danish Reformation in 1536, Jews and Catholics
were prohibited entry into Denmark. Prior to that, no Jews seem to have
lived in Denmark, and the attitude was pretty much like that in
(Danish-ruled) Norway: “No non-Christians please.” In 1628, the presence of
Portuguese Jews along the lower Elbe (in today’s Northern Germany)
necessitated a legal amendment to give residence permits to certain Jews in
certain areas then under the Danish crown.

· In 1680 the Jews of Stockholm petitioned the king that they be permitted
to reside there without abandoning their creed, but the application was
denied because the local consistory had refused to endorse it. On December
3, 1685, Charles XI ordered the governor-general of the capital to see that
no Jews were permitted to settle in Stockholm and in any other part of the
country, "on account of the danger of the eventual influence of the Jewish
religion on the pure evangelical faith." In case Jews were found in any
Swedish community, they were to be notified to leave within fourteen days.
Jews and Muslims moving to Sweden had to convert to Christianity to be
allowed to stay. Swedish Jews that evaded conversion received equal status
with other Swedes as late as in 1910 (i.e. 100 years ago).

· Few Jews moved to Iceland. Those that did had to at least outwardly
assimilate, such as by taking on Icelandic names. In granting Icelandic
residence permits during the Great Depression in the 1930s, Christian
Scandinavians and Germans were given preference to Jews from the same
countries. Even during and soon after World War II Jewish refugees were not
welcome in Iceland, and the local press portrayed them as bothersome ragtag
exotics that needed to be kept out.

· Jews were expelled from England in 1290, following various attacks on
them, especially the massacres of London and York (1189–1190).

· Jews were banished from Swiss towns in the 1620s, and from 1776 they were
allowed to reside exclusively in two villages. Legal freedom was granted to
all religious communities in Switzerland no earlier than in 1874.



And then again...in the heartland of catholicism, Italy, there's the
"goldene medinah" of Venice...where Jews have prospered for almost 2000
years now. Goes to show christianity has more than one face, I guess ;=)



Kind greetings,



Luc Hellinckx, Halle, Belgium



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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

Subject: Vexillology



Quite so, Luc! Which actually underlines the point I was trying to make.

Disclaimer: I *love* the Nordic countries.

People these days -- especially in other Protestant-dominated parts of
Northern Europe -- have a somewhat romantic mental image of the Nordic
countries as being very tolerant and benevolent, and they shrug off as
meaningless the fact that their flags have Christian crosses. I was trying
to remind folks that this openness and benevolence does not necessarily go
back a long way, that non-Christians really were unwanted in those parts
even in recent history, and that those crosses are not necessarily
meaningless in everyone’s mind. Let me remind you of rising xenophobia and
Muslim-bating in Scandinavia today. As I said, I have a soft spot for the
Nordic countries, but I don’t wear rose-colored glasses.

Your point is well taken, Luc. Italy may not have been a bed of roses for
everyone, but the Italians, especially Northern Italians, have on the whole
been more welcoming of non-Christians than have most other European regions,
both Protestant- and Catholic-dominated, and so has Catholic-dominated
Belgium to a degree. Indeed, many Ashkenazi Jews from Catholic-dominated
Austria and Southern Germany found refuge in Venice, Padua, Mantua and other
regions and cities of what is now Italy. (For instance, the Jewish Late
Renaissance composer Salamone Rossi was born into a Jewish German family in
Mantua, probably called Roth on arrival, *HaAdumim* האדומים‎ ‘the red ones’
in Hebrew. He is widely believed to have perished when invading Austrian
troops raided the ghettos of Mantua.) Furthermore, when Spain and Portugal
expelled their Jews, Italy offered refuge to many of them all over the
country and there have been no problems of note. And Italy does not have a
cross on its flag.

In Northern Europe this sort of openness was confined to small merchant-run
governments such as those of Amsterdam and Hamburg.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA



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