LL-L "Language proficiency" 2010.06.26 (02) [EN]

Sat Jun 26 21:15:49 UTC 2010

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*L O W L A N D S - L - 26 June 2010 - Volume 02
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>

Subject: LL-L "Language proficiency" 2010.06.25 (01) [AF-EN]

This is a topic of great interest to me as you might gather and I look
forward to your findings. Certainly quote anything I might write here if
it's of use.

Unfortunately I don't speak any other language at a level anywhere near my
English so I've never had the experience myself - though back in the 70s I
flew South African Airways so often I could quote both the English and
Afrikaans safety talks verbatim!

Possibly related is the condition of children raised with two or more
languages. My son was three when we left South Africa and he'd grown up with
English (at home ) and Afrikaans at the creche. He rarely if ever got the
two confused, he flicked over like a switch.

One of my nephews lives in Finland (his wife is Finnish) and their kids are
growing up with both languages.  He always speaks English to the kids, she
only uses Finnish.  The oldest, as a 3-year-old, likewise never got mixed
up. She seemed to rapidly identify who spoke what and addressed them in the
relevant language thereafter.  Many of their Finnish friends speak perfect
English, and sometimes speak to her in that language, but she steadfastly
refuses to use it in return; she replies in Finnish.

Paul

Derby

England

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

Subject: Language proficiency

I wonder if there is are differences in switching and interpreting between
two languages with regard to their relatedness or lack thereof.

It seems to me that in my case interference is strongest the more closely
related the two languages are, especially where there is a fair or high
degree of mutual intelligibility.

Mari (Estonian and English (and Russian?)) and Antero (Finnish, Swedish,
English, Dutch) might be able to shed some light on this.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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From: Obiter Dictum <obiterdictum at mail.ru>

Subject: LL-L "Language proficiency" 2010.06.25 (04) [EN]

Hi Ron,

> First of all:

> > (Ron ... I put my money on you, especially ; )

> How much are we talking about, and will I get a cut?

A tenner, fella me lad :) Chervonetz. Ten roubles, you know (since I'm in
Moscow now). Btw, are you in for a loss as well? :)

Thank a ton, you Ron, Sandy, Paul and Mark, for your great stories. (Sandy's
story of people keeping talking in BSL among themselves is superb.) May I
quote y'all?

Well, it seems other Lowlanders really take a break for the weekend. Ok. To
keep up the subject going, here is my two cents.

1. Back in the late 1997 or early 1998, as a "host" lawyer, I accompanied a
crowd of UK, US, German and Swiss lawyers and auditors at a meeting with the
top managers of a big Russian company who was about to issue Eurobonds. The
Westerners bombarded the Russians with questions, the Russians answered; I
interpreted.

It happened after an hour and a half of my fairly smooth (by that time)
interpretation. I was rendering, chunk by chunk, an extended explanation
given by the Russian across the table from me. I delivered his last the
sentence in what I thought was English and nodded to him to go on. Instead,
he said quietly (in Russian), "You said it in Russian."

"Ugh?" I asked dumbly.

"What I've just said. My answer. You did not interpret. You repeated it in
Russian."

What a blooper! And that was after I had told the Westerners we needed no
interpreter. I was so proud of my interpreting skills! The Westerners waited
patiently; they thought I was clearing some hazy point before interpreting.

I think, however, that the reason for my "interpreting" into the source
language (as the translators call it) was that I was just tired by the time,
and I was no professional interpreter after all, though I did the job fairy
well for the remainder of the meeting.

2. This one is somewhat closer to what Roger wrote about not remembering in
which language one has read or heard something.

Four years ago, I happened to know the exact wording (and origin) of the
statement that I didn’t remember well: "African dictators used English as a
tool of nation-building and failed." (I don't remember now why I wanted it,
but it had something to do with the background for my study of Afrikaans).

I was dead positive that I had read that in Russian, and even thought I knew
where: in the blog of a Russian historian who was an outspoken critic of
Mugabe, Nujoma and (then) Mbeki. I went to his blog, ransacked it
throughout, but did not find the quote. I posted the question then, asking
the blogger if it was he who wrote that, and could he please give me the
link to it, and could he please elaborate. He replied that he had never
posted anything like that.

Then, by elimination, I decided the statement belonged to Dan Roodt, the
Afrikaans writer, whose articles I read in English and Afrikaans about that
time, too. And I wondered again if I had read that in English or in
Afrikaans.

I finally found it. It was Dan Roodt all right, and the statement was in
English: "Although English is spoken [in South Africa] as a mother tongue by
only three million people (including more than one million Indians) out of
46 million, it is the official medium of "nation-building," that forlorn
dream of every African government since the 1950s." Rood wrote that in the
American Renaissance in May 2004.

Looking forward to your further input.

Best regards,

Vlad Lee

Tokyo, Japan/Moscow, Russia

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