LL-L "Etymology" 2010.03.19 (01) [EN]

Fri Mar 19 16:29:26 UTC 2010

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*L O W L A N D S - L - 19 March 2010 - Volume 01*
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From: Jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.03.18 (03) [DE-EN-NDS-NN]

Thanks very much, Diederik,

for your investigations about 'kalv':

*It's meaning 2 you're looking for, it says litterally "smaller island or
water next to bigger one(s?); piece of glacier that has broken off". **
So the general idea seems to be "smaller piece next to a bigger entity", be
it a lake, an island, or a glacier.
I suppose in this meaning it's related to the Dutch verb "afkalven",
"geleidelijk afbrokkelen (m.n. van oevers)". Hard to translate this one to
English but it's something like "slow but steadily breaking down (of
(river)bank)".
I guess they thought the small islands surrounding a bigger one had
originally broken off the bigger one.*

I think THAT'S IT! Of course - no connection to any calf or cow at all! And
interesting is - important part of my hobby etymological experiences - that,
in special the near-by Dutch relation, as it occures very often if you want
to succeed in LS, is able to lift the mysterious 'fog'!

Allerbest and thanks again! Very, very useful, helpful and enlightening all
conclusions to find out the old roots of specifically, micro-located naval
designations! All the nonsense and "Google-proven-" or "we've learned it at
school-"-attestes about ridicule "dancing calves" definitely should end at
this point!

With best regards

Jonny Meibohm

Lower Saxony, Germany

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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.03.18 (03) [DE-EN-NDS-NN]

From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.03.17 (07) [EN]

[...]

Sometimes coincidence is remarkable. Just some days ago I stumbled upon an
entry in Cirk Heinrich Stürenburg's Ostfriesisches Wörterbuch "Kalv:
eingestürzte Uferstrecke". I asked about it on
<http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Auskunft/Archiv/2010/Woche_09#kalben><http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Auskunft/Archiv/2010/Woche_09#kalben>.
And I created a Wikipedia article about it:
<http://nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalv_%28Toponym%29><http://nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalv_%28Toponym%29>.
So the basic meaning is a smaller island near a bigger island. And if we
abstract a bit more and combine the different meanings (young of a cow,
broken-off part of a bank, small island) we get something like "a small mass
that came from a bigger mass".

I don't think "Kalberdanz" is related. I read an entry "Kalverdanz" in one
of my dictionaries (I'm not sure which one, I'll try to look it up) and it
said that the "Kalverdanz" is a region in the Elbe mouth that is named for
it's roughness. So if you cross it with a boat it's like a calf dancing
(that's what I remember of the explanation, I will post the real text if I
find the dictionary and entry).

I too thought about "Hanskalbsand" when I found aforementioned entry in
Stürenburg's dictionary. I couldn't find any etymological data about it, but
I made some wild speculations: If "Hanskalbsand" is related to the "kalv"
group of island names, then "Hanskalv" is the base and "Hanskalbsand" is the
sand that was left when the island "Hanskalv" was washed away by the Elbe
river. Nearby we have the island "Hahnöfersand". The "öfer" part seems to be
Low Saxon "Över", German "Ufer" (English 'shore'). If "sand" again is a
secondary addition we have "Hahnöver", the shore of some geographic entity
named "Hahn". So maybe "Hanskalv" should be "Hahnskalv" the smaller island
near the bigger island of "Hahn" (or the other way round "Hahnöferand"
should rather be "Hanöfersand").
[...]

Hi,

Cp. dutch: 'afkalven' = wash away in the water.

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

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