LL-L "Grammar" 2011.04.27 (01) [DE-EN-NDS]

Wed Apr 27 17:53:05 UTC 2011

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L O W L A N D S - L - 27 April 2011 - Volume 01
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From: Mike Morgan <mwmbombay at gmail.com>

Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2011.04.26 (04) [EN]

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 6:16 AM, Lowlands-L List <lowlands.list at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> This applies for instance in the Turkic languages and in Japanese. For
> instance, Turkish uses an “inferential” tense marked by the suffix /–mVş–/
> (→ –*miş*– ~ –*müş*– ~ –*mış*–~ –*muş*–); e.g., ...
>

My first exposure to the concept of evidentiality was Bulgarian... which
probably borrowed the category from Turkish (although it used/s purely
Slavic forms to express it, employing Slavic -l- past participles, with or
without auxilary "to be") as opposed to imperfect or perfect tense).
Wikipedia has a fairly good treatment of this (and also the entire verbal
system of Bulgarian -- whcih is perhaps the most complex of any modern
Slavic language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_verbs)

As for what the origin of the ENGLISH newspaper headline version ("Ron Paul
*kicks* off exploratory committee; News at 11"), I would ASSUME it has it
roots in the common use of the present tense in narrating past events ... to
make the story more "vivid".
https://mail.google.com/mail/?shva=1#inbox/12f946f02faeb917<?shva=1#inbox/12f946f02faeb917>

AND, of course, if one looks at the ENglish "simple present" as REALLY being
an aorist (indeterminate as to tense or aspect) in general, then the
semantics is also easy to explain....

mwm || U C > || mike || мика  || माईक || マイク || மாய்க் (aka Dr Michael W
Morgan)

Senior Consultant
BA in Applied Sign Language Studies (BAASLS)
Indira Gandhi National Open Univeristy
New Delhi, India

"Too often we honor swagger and bluster and wielders of force; too often we
excuse those who are willing to build their own lives on the shattered
dreams of others. ... [T]here is another kind of violence, slower but just
as deadly destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the
violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay." (Bobby
Kennedy, 5 April 1968)

----------

From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>

Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2011.04.26 (04) [EN]

Hi Ron,
I guess we construct the inferential, at least in English: "they say
that..", "It's been said that..." etc.

Wracking my brains, but I can't think of any other use of that "present in
the past" tense, except for headlines.  Even in newspapers, the article
following the headline always reverts to a past tense:

"Clegg Attacks No camp in AV Campaign"
The deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, today attack*ed* what he called
"Scaremongering" in the campaign against Alternative Voting (AV)....

Odd really.  Maybe it makes the headline seem more immediate?

Paul
Derby
England

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From: Heiko Evermann <heiko.evermann at gmx.de>

Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2011.04.26 (04) [EN]

Dear Ron,

> Among the world’s languages there are those whose grammars allow or
require
> the speaker to use specific grammatical devices (tenses, modes, moods,
> voices or aspects) that indicate second-hand knowledge. In other words, in
> reporting an event that you did not witness yourself you use a grammatical
> form that differs from the one you use to report an event of which you
have
> first-hand knowledge.
...
> The inferential tense is widely used in news reporting, except in cases in
> which a writer has first-hand knowledge. Use of this tense is mandatory in
> narratives such as fairytales.
>
> I can’t think of anything equivalent in the Lowlands languages nor in the
> Germanic branch generally. But I wonder if any of you can come up with
> something.
Well, second hand knowledge ist expressed by indirect speech, which
in the case of German is marked with a tense of its own: Konjunktiv.
It is used in formal writing and it is common in newspapers, at least
in traditional newspapers.  As far as I remember, BILD does not use
it. (Besides: An urban legend states that in former times it was
called BILD-Zeitung, but they had to drop "Zeitung", because they
aren't.)
So in written language it is:
Das Wirtschaftsministerium teilte mit, die wirtschaftliche Lage HABE
sich verbessert.

In more colloquial language it  would be:
Das Wirtschaftsministerium
teilte mit, die Lage HAT sich verbessert.

If you want to express doubt, you could also write:
Das Wirtschaftsministerium teilte mit, die Lage HÄTTE sich verbessert.

Heiko Evermann

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From: mike.keach at gmail.com <hannehinz at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L re: Ron's Grammer

I think such usage as you cite from the news media can be dated back to the
time of Chicago mobsters if not later to the 2nd World War. And: if you want
original perpetrators, look no farther than Wm. Randolph Hearst and Walter
Winchell. It's clearly a marketing ploy to indicate that the station or
newspaper is instantly reporting "BREAKING" news.

Over time this "New" Flash Voice, if you will, has become a standard form of
news delivery. I haven't ever heard it in common spoken vernacular.  It's
strictly a marquee/paperboy form of an announcement to catch one's attention
and, hopefully, encourage you to buy a paper or lure sponsors to underwrite
your station because you're obviously on top of 'things' as they happen.

"Hurry, Hurry: Read All About It !!!"

Ad nauseum . . .

Alles beste,
~Mike in Tampadorf
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

----------

From: Hannelore Hinz <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2011.04.26 (04) [EN]

Leiw' Lowlanners,

Ron schreew: Clearly, all these events happened in the past, and this is so
stated within the

                        actual texts of the respective articles.
                        Is this title-specific style unique?
                        What might be its origin?

Dat is ein hoge Kunst, de nich so licht to  maken is. Man weit je nienich
in'n Vörut wat so passieren kann.
1. Man kann nah, also oewer ein' Saak, woans sick dat taudragen hett,
vermellen, un
2.  oewer de, de noch stattfinn', all in'n Vörut plant sünd.
3. un de 'echten' Live-Reportagen glieksen wiesen.

Dat is binah so, as bi de Wäder-Reporters, vörher weiten's dat nich so
recht, un later ... dat kennen wi je.

Künn je sien, wi finn'n 'n Weg, wat tau maken sien künn:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liveübertragung

Hartlich.

Hanne

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