LL-L "Names" 2011.12.14 (06) [EN]

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 14 December 2011 - Volume 06
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From: Hellinckx Luc luc.hellinckx at gmail.com
  Subject: LL-L "Names"

Hi there David,

You wrote:

Now that I finally have my own computer, I am slowly going through
thousands of posts.


Wishing you courage...it will sure take some time. But then again, you
could sort them, which may eventually prove to be less time consuming than
reading them as they are posted.

Question:

Why do a lot of Belgian family names end in nckx, e.g. Luc Hellinckx?


Because most Belgian family names have never been reformed, they retain the
old pre-18th century spelling. Most Dutch family names on the other hand
have been modernized and adapted to a new spelling at one point in time
(Napoleon or later). -ckx is the usual South Central Dutch spelling, -cx is
more prevalent in South Western Dutch and Limburgish often has -gs.

As well, how do you pronounce such a name -- it is as it sounds, e.g.
hellinks? The n presumably is nasalised, since it would be hard to
pronounce the n in the usual way, with the ks consontal cluster following
immediately afterwards.


Totally right.

-inckx = inga + genitive s = siblings of ...

Present-day English/German would write the name as "Helling(s)", but
Southern Dutch often pronounces final (nasal) -ng as -nk:

ring (ring (E)) > rink
ding (thing (E)) > dink
zong (sang (E)) > zoenk
lang (long (E)) > lank
koning (king (E)) > köönink

Therefore Helling > Hellink. But that's not how -k used to be written,
rather like "Hellinck" (compare English rock, stock, flock, lick,
block...). May well be that the phonetic quality of that -k was not exactly
as we would think it was (voiced?), and in order to distinguish it from
unvoiced -c, maybe -k was added? Just a hunch btw.

Even today, you can still hear folks from the city of Ghent pronounce ring
as rinx, zingen (to sing) as zinxen (to sing), where x = a voiceless velar
fricative, like the final sound of Scottish Loch. I believe having heard
Northern English dialects where a similar phenomenon also occurred.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx, Halle, Belgium

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From: Tomás Ó Cárthaigh tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com
  Subject: LL-L "Names" 2011.12.14 (01) [EN]

A posting on CafeBabel about the gender war in the French and German
languages was something I thought might intrest readers, about whether Miss
/ Mrs / or Ms should be used.

http://www.cafebabel.co.uk/article/39481/french-german-grammar-sexism-feminism-language.html

It brought to mind the senarios we have here in the British / Anglo-Celtic
Isles, and promped the folloing response from me:

In English we used to have Master for a young unmarried man, who only
became Mr when either he married or inherited from his father.

A single man of age would be Mr reguardless of situation, as would a woman
be 'Missus' unless she was known to be a Miss, in which case Missus was an
insult!!!

An interesting twist in both Ireland and Scotland is the use of Master for
a man of education, such as a school principle.

A further twist is a medical student is known as Mr until he becomes a
doctor, after which he is doctor, but when he becomes a consultant he again
becomes MR.... very important to use otherwise we suggest hes a mere
doctor!!!

In Irish, a woman is always of either her father or husband on paper,
though in reality it is "of the family of"... the complication that arises
there is where a woman is from the O' Carty or Mac Carthy families - two
totally different names - she is Nic Cárthaigh (daughter of), wherewas the
son would have the Ó/Mac retention distinguishing between the clans. So a
Mary Mac Carthy would be known as Mary of the Mac Carthys.

When married she becomes Bean (woman of) Uí Ceallaigh (for Kelly), loss
again of distinguishing mark of the families (though this does not apploy
for Kelly), and can sign her name as either her own Maire Bean Úi
Cheallaigh, or as ber husbands name Bean Sean Ó Ceallaigh, which was used
in its English form up to lately as in a Mrs John Reilly who lived in
Longford, and was NEVER described any other way!!! Her husband was well
known and important, so it was a prestige sign to have the name that way...

*"a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've
written one is never at peace" *

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