LL-L "Etymology" 2010.12.20. (02) [EN-NDS]

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 20 December 2011 - Volume 02
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From: Utz H.Woltmann uwoltmann at gmx.de
 Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2010.12.18 (01) [DE-NDS]

An'n 18.12.2011 21:35, schrev Hannelore Hinz:

*Nu is't rut! * Mien Flur-Nahwersch (Seniorin) ein echte Ostpreußin,  is
wedder tau Huus von ehr grote Welltreis' (12 Weeken). Wi vertellten 'n
Strämel. Ja, un dat Wuurd "Bagaluten" wier ehr nich frömd, *oewer
"Bagaluten" seggen's  in Westpreußen. *In Ostpreußen heit dat *Lorbaß*, wat
wi ok hier seggen. Dit harr eigentlich 'wikipedia' weiten müßt'.


In´t Poolsche hebbt se en Woord "łobuz / łobuziak" för en "Bagaluut". Dat
is ut dat 15. Jahrhunnert. Dunntomalen heet dat "łobuzie" (PL gęstwina,
krzaki, zarośla = NDS Struukwark / Wried = EN undergrowth / brushwood /
weed).

http://www.sciaga.pl/slowniki-tematyczne/7900/lobuz/

Mag ween, dat is vun dat Düütsche "Lausbub" af. In de Tied hebbt se woll
noch dat "Ł" as en "L" snackt.

In´t  Kaschuubsche hebbt se en "lorbas" wat datsülvige as dat Poolsche
"łobuz / łobuziak" bedüden deit.

In Wiki is written: "De Naam Lorbass kummt ut dat Oostpreußsche un bedüüdt
Dögenix, Lümmel. In dat Oostpreußsche is dat ut dat Litausche kamen, vun
liurbas (Dögenix)."

http://nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorbass

Vun dat Litausche weet ik nix vun af.

P.S. In't Jiddische schall dat ook en Woord "lobus" geven, wat en lüttjet
Monster betekent. Amenn is dat noch af vun´t Latiensche "lupus" = Wulf?

Kumpelmenten

Utz H. Woltmann

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks for the interesting information, Utz, and sorry I'm switching over
to English in hopes of expanding the informational pool.

Folks, we are talking about the Low Saxon word *Lorbas* [ˈloɐ̯bas]
'good-for-nothing', ' ne'er-do-well', 'scalawag', 'lout', 'ruffian', etc.
Apparently it started off being specific to East Prussian Low Saxon. I am
quite familiar with it and believe it has been spread to some western
dialects.

Above, our Utz reports that Polish has *łobuz* and *łobuziak* with the same
meaning. Kashubian *lorbas*, which he also mentions, seems like a Low Saxon
loan.

[Utz, I used to know some elderly Polish speakers that pronounced *ł* like
English "l" in "all", the standard pronunciation [w] apparently being
relatively recent in Polish, Silesian and Sorbian.]

[Please bear in mind that Kashubian and now extinct Slovincian are Lechitic
Pomeranian West Slavic languages that are closely related to Polish and
Silesian but have been strongly influenced by Low Saxon, and on earlier
strata (substrata?) by Baltic language varieties as well. Please also
remember that we are talking about a region that during the Middle Ages saw
large-scale immigration from the Lowlands (including Low Saxon, Dutch and
Scots).]

Utz also mentions Polish *łobuzie *'undergrowth, 'brushwood', 'weed'.

Instead of **liurbas* (as mentioned by Utz), I know of Lithuanian
*liurbis*in the sense of 'good-for-nothing', ' ne'er-do-well',
'scalawag', 'lout',
'ruffian', etc., also in the sense of 'patsy'. (I don't know if Latvian *
lempis* is related.)

So far I have not been able to find a relevant trace in Old Prussian.

Any  help?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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