LL-L "Language varieties" 2011.07.10 (01) [EN]

Sun Jul 10 17:37:46 UTC 2011

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 10 July 2011 - Volume 01
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 From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <roerd096 at PLANET.NL>
 Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2011.07.09 (05) [EN]

Hi Pat, I‘ve got those figures from a book about Surinam’s history, there’s
a map of West Africa in it with the percentages of slaves per region
transported to Surinam. But this does not say what tribal background the
Maroons had. What ‘s known is that almost all of these runaway slaves who
escaped into the bush (rain forests) were “zoutwaternegers” (salt water
negroes). i.e. born in Africa, and not in Surinam from slave mothers, so
they had probably been exposed to European culture and language far less and
shorter than the creoles who were born there and spoke a common pidgin, and
they still knew their own languages and cultures.
Btw I wrote that the slaves from Congo/Angola were called Loandas, but that
should be Loangos, and they came from Southern Gabon as well. Loango is a
city in present day Congo Brazzaville. The Loangos spoke the Kikongo
language, and this is one of the main sources of African words in the
Surinamese creoles, next to the Gbe languages from Togo/Benin.
Ingmar

From: Pat Barrett pbarrett at cox.net
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2011.07.09 (02) [AF-EN]
Great clip. Thanks. But I notice less than 20% of the settlers came from the
Akan (Ga, Fanti, Ashanti, Baoule) region. This makes me run to my books to
check that out. Meanwhile, back to my North Sea Germanic Reader. This
listserv is a treasure trove for us. My thanks to all those who write in the
various Lowlands languages.
Pat Barrett

From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <roerd096 at PLANET.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2011.07.08 (07) [EN]

Btw the West African slaves transported to Surinam came from:

13,5% from Gambia to Eastern Ivory Coast (so Gambia, S Senegal, Guinea
Bissau, Guinea, Sierra Leone, Liberia, IC)
18,5% from the Eastern Ivory Coast and Ghana.
37 %   from Togo to Gabon (Togo, Benin, Nigeria, Cameroon, Equitorial
Guinea, Gabon)
31 %   from Congo and Angola (Congo Brazzaville, DRC, Angola), these slaves
were called "Loandas" and had a bad name

Slaves from those four macroregions had contacts and friendships mostly in
their own group and were often hostile towards people from other groups.

The people in the clips I sent the other day reminded me the most of
Congolese people

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <roerd096 at PLANET.NL>
 Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2011.07.09 (02) [AF-EN]

Well, I’m happily surprised that many of you seem to remember me after such
a long period of absence, but there must be a lot of recent members too who
don’t.
Anyway, nice Afrikaans translation Mark! I noticed you used “Diets”, is that
the usual word for Germanic? In the Netherlands “Diets” got a bad name
because in WW II the Nazis used that word for Germanic/Arisch. Btw MS
Romanisch is rather Romaans than Romanch, I meant the Romance languages. But
very nice that you could translate the MS text so neatly, I wonder whether
German, Low Saxon or Scandinavian speakers could understand this
Middelsprake text just as easily.
Ingmar

Hello Ingmar!

Subject: LL-L "Language varieties"

No, I remember you well, & also your Middelsprake.

Mind you I have a sneaky advantage, in Afrikaans. With the Taal I can read
it for the most part glibly & fluently, with passing note taken of
orthography & sound-changes. I suppose the same applies to most of the
dialects of Littoral Norwestern Europe. Going back to my childhood pursuits
I find it particularly satisfying that it seems to draw in Teutonic tongues
east of West-Netherfrankish (German 'knacked' my efforts in that direction).

Just for my personal deluctation I shall assay a parallel translation of
your Middelsprake into Afrikaans:
Middelspraak (kort: MS) is een kunstlig maked spraak dat is basered up de
wichtigest levend Germanisch sprake.
'Middelspraak'  (afkorting MS) is 'n kunstaal gegrond op die meerderheid
lewendige Dietse tale.
De grammatika is simpel on regelmatig, wat make dat licht to lerne.
Die grammatika is eenvoudig en reëlmatig, sodoende maklik om te leer.
Man kan forgelike Middelspraak mid Interlingua, de kunstlig spraak basered
up Latin/Romanisch,
'n Mens kan Middelspraak met Interlingua vergelyk, die kunstaal gegrond op
Latyns/Romanch,
in dat for de meest sprekers af een oller meer Germanisch sprake, mennig af
een MS tekst schal wese forstaan direkt,
deurdat die meerderheid sprekers van een of meer Dietse tale sal menige MS
teks direk verstaan
uter enig to lerne fyrst. De levend Germanisch sprake, uter Engelisch, have
rund 170 miljon sprekers.
sonder om dit vooraf te studeer. Die lewendige Dietse tale, Engels
uitgesonder, het rondom 170 million sprekers.

For Engelisch sprekers MS is okso mennig lichter to lerne dan, saege,
Duetisch, Nederlandisch oller Swedisch.
Vir die Engelssprekendes is MS ook baie makliker om te leer as byvoorbeeld
Duits, Nederlands of Sweeds.
MS have een regelmatig spelling, aleen regelmatig wirk-worde, aleen een enig
kyn on een enig fal,
MS het reëlmatige spelling, uitsluitlik reëmatige werkwoorde, uitsluitlik
een grammatikale casus,
regelmatig meertal on kenne nik een "umlaut".
reëlmatige meervoud en geen 'umlaut'.
Du kan finde uut meer af de spraak's grammatika, wordschat, tekste,
luud-dokuments etc. in de "Files" afdeling.
u Kan nog meer oor die taal se grammatika, woordeskat, tekste, klankleërs
ens. opspoor in die 'Files' afdeling.
Middelspraak is een af de variants af Folkspraak
Middelspraak is maar een uit 'n verskeidenheid van Volkspraak.

I could push the Afrikaans even closer, but then it would sound clumsy and
awkward, which Middelspraak does not, and Afrikaans need not.

Alas, Ingmar, James, Ingmar has it right. One can't do the same with the
same ease in (Modern) English, it has gone too far its own way. But I'd like
to see it done in German!

Totsiens, Ingmar!
Mark

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