LL-L "Etymology" 2011.10.24 (01) [EN]

Mon Oct 24 19:12:34 UTC 2011

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  L O W L A N D S - L - 23 October 2011 - Volume 01
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From: M.-L. Lessing marless at gmx.de
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2011.10.23 (01) [EN]

Hello,

I fully support Piet's cause! Searching for words for the "kraak", I
find only "Galerie" and "Empore" in my brain and can hardly believe it.
There must be some other, more authentic word, even in my vocabulary, though
well hidden! At least in Platt it *cannot* be "Galerie" or "Empore". Help
us, Plattkenners!

As to the old-fashion service, I had before heard that children were often
kept together in such a place. What I never understood is why. Why give
children the opportunity not only to gibber, play and make noise together,
but even to throw things down?? Or was there some unfortunate person in
charge to hinder them? Good luck, with 20 or more children...

Hartlich!

Marlou

       From: "Stellingwerfs Eigen" <info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Dear LL-friends,
Yesterday in our newspaper (Leeuwarder Courant) there was an article about a
old fashion church service: *"De vrouwen zaten apart en hadden hoedjes op.
Sommige mannen hadden een hoge hoed op. De meeste kinderen, ook helemaal in
stijl met petten en strikken in het haar, zaten op de kraak."* (Woman where
sitting apart, some man where wearing a top-hat en the childeren where
sitting on de 'kraak'.)

That word 'kraak' intrigues me. It is a high-level half-open floor,
somewhere between the ground-floor and the roof in a church. It is mostly
also the place where the organ is been played.

In our Stellingwarf (LS) region we know a word 'hilde' meant for a half-open
'tussenverdieping' (Eng: mezzanine(?)) but this is not used for a 'kraak' in
a church.

I'm wondering (a) where that word 'kraak' etymological comes from and (b) if
there is a equivalent word for the Dutch 'kraak' in LS? In our Stellingwerfs
we call it the  'kraeke'.
Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf,
Piet Bult

 ----------

From: Mark and Ruth Dreyer mrdreyer at lantic.net
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2011.10.23 (01) [EN]

Beste Piet en Almal:

Subject: LL-L: "Etymology"

Thanks for that snippet  (tagged below).

Our school hall had a fairly narrow 'pit' between the floor & the stage, &
the first-year kids, for whom there was no seating, would  jostle for place
to sit on the floor in the front, dangling their legs over the edge, or as
the choir-master our Music Teacher called it, 'die krakie'. It made perfect
sense in informal language, & we supposed he had invented the term. Mind
you, they did say he trained in Nederland.

I mean to say, slightly over-using the English, from anywhere else in the
hall it looked like a 'crack' in the floor, & most likely to an orchestra in
the pit it would *feel* like a crack. On one celebrated occasion they put on
a pantomime, & as per tradition the 'Demon King' had to pop up out of the
earth when our vacuous hero stamps three times. By way of atmosphere the
Science Teacher whipped up a smoke bomb for his advent. But he was a bit
heavy-handed & 'His Royal Lowness' had a good twenty-minutes coughing-fit
staggering up out of the pit (in the flickering floodlights it was
magnificantly realistic),  & when he said, propping himself up on his
borrowed hay-fork, 'Man, dit was die Hel!' (the panto was in English, of
course), he brought the House down. Sadly, that was a 'one off' production.
I think pantomimes were in retrospect deemed too naughty for general
viewing. It was long ago.

I am paying the price for lurking - everyone else is doing the same, except
you & Our Hannelore (Dankie, my skattie!) & nothing happens. With a bow to
the Jews in their New Year I undertake to be more forthcoming.

Groete,
Mark

        Dear LL-friends,
Yesterday in our newspaper (Leeuwarder Courant) there was an article about a
old fashion church service: *"De vrouwen zaten apart en hadden hoedjes op.
Sommige mannen hadden een hoge hoed op. De meeste kinderen, ook helemaal in
stijl met petten en strikken in het haar, zaten op de kraak."* (Woman where
sitting apart, some man where wearing a top-hat en the childeren where
sitting on de 'kraak'.)

That word 'kraak' intrigues me. It is a high-level half-open floor,
somewhere between the ground-floor and the roof in a church. It is mostly
also the place where the organ is been played.

In our Stellingwarf (LS) region we know a word 'hilde' meant for a half-open
'tussenverdieping' (Eng: mezzanine(?)) but this is not used for a 'kraak' in
a church.

I'm wondering (a) where that word 'kraak' etymological comes from and (b) if
there is a equivalent word for the Dutch 'kraak' in LS? In our Stellingwerfs
we call it the  'kraeke'.
Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf,
Piet Bult

----------

From: Marcus Buck list at marcusbuck.org
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2011.10.23 (01) [EN]

From: "Stellingwerfs Eigen" <info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl>

       Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Dear LL-friends,
Yesterday in our newspaper (Leeuwarder Courant) there was an article about a
old fashion church service: *"De vrouwen zaten apart en hadden hoedjes op.
Sommige mannen hadden een hoge hoed op. De meeste kinderen, ook helemaal in
stijl met petten en strikken in het haar, zaten op de kraak."* (Woman where
sitting apart, some man where wearing a top-hat en the childeren where
sitting on de 'kraak'.)

That word 'kraak' intrigues me. It is a high-level half-open floor,
somewhere between the ground-floor and the roof in a church. It is mostly
also the place where the organ is been played.

In our Stellingwarf (LS) region we know a word 'hilde' meant for a half-open
'tussenverdieping' (Eng: mezzanine(?)) but this is not used for a 'kraak' in
a church.

I'm wondering (a) where that word 'kraak' etymological comes from and (b) if
there is a equivalent word for the Dutch 'kraak' in LS? In our Stellingwerfs
we call it the  'kraeke'.
Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf,
Piet Bult

This is known as "Empore" in German and as "Prieg" or "Priegel" in some
dialects of Low Saxon (Prieg:
<http://plattmakers.de/index.php?show=7448><http://plattmakers.de/index.php?show=7448>[attested
from Eastfalia, Altmark], Priegel:
<http://plattmakers.de/index.php?show=4522><http://plattmakers.de/index.php?show=4522>[attested
from the Oldenburg area]).

Marcus Buck

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