LL-L "Etymology" 2012.02.29 (02) [EN]

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 29 February 2012 - Volume 02
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From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong Dutchmatters at comcast.net
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2012.02.29 (01) [EN]

Hoezo?-Hoe zo?-Wieso?-How so?   TRICKY! Ron gets himself into a linguistic
wasps nest.

In my Dutch dictionary “Van Dale Groot Woordenboek der Nederlandse taal
1976”  it does not show up either as hoezo? or hoe zo? In my German-Dutch
dictionary (Kramers Woordenboek D/N N /D 1996) I find D to N Wieso? -
Hoezo? And N to D Hoe’zo? - Wieso?

So the question presents itself:- Is this maybe a Dutch loan from English
How So?

There is/was? even an informative radio program called Hoe? Zo!



In the case of Afr. ‘Hoekom’. It may indeed be an English calque, but in
Dutch you can say:- Hoe komt het dat……..? and that has exactly the same
meaning as English ‘How come?’



Concerning the difference between ‘Waarom’ en Hoezo’ There is indeed a
difference. I would use ‘Waarom’ to ask for a precedent, but ‘Hoezo’ for
the reason of that precedent – a more intellectual inquiry.



Jacqueline BdJ
Seattle US

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From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2012.02.29 (01) [EN]

Ron wrote:
 >
>
> Am I correct in assuming that Afrikaans hoekom is a calque (i.e. loan
translation from English?
>
I wouldn't say it is. In Dutch one can say "Hoe komt dat?", just like
in Low Saxon one says "wu kümp dät?". Leave off the dat/dät and you're
almost there.

cheers,
Henry

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <roerd096 at PLANET.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2012.02.29 (01) [EN]

Interesting that you mention this, Ron.
 Next to Dutch "waarom"  and "hoezo", "waarvoor" is used for why as well.
"Waarom" is most often seen as the correct Standard Dutch form, "waarvoor"
and "hoezo" as wrong, vulgar, dialectical.

 "Waarvoor sla je me?" is considered incorrect, which should be "waarom sla
je me?"  (why do you hit me?).

The last few years, one can hear "hoezo" instead of "waarom" very often:
"hoezo sla je me?"
To me this use of hoezo sounds quite childish, maybe because children and
teenagers especially use it.

Btw: Afrikaans "hoekom" doesn't exist in Dutch, but we'd say "hoe komt het
dat...", "hoe komt ..."

hoe komt het dat jouw haar zo nat is? = how come your hair is so wet?  or
hoe komt jouw haar zo nat? = what made your hair so wet?

Ingmar

From: R. F. Hahn <[log in to unmask]>
 Subject: Etymology

Dear Lowlanders,

In Dutch, the most basic adverbs expressing the idea of "why" are waarom
and hoezo (= "how so"), while in Afrikaans they are waarom and hoekom (=
"how come"). Do competent speakers perceive them as being semantically
different?

Am I correct in assuming that Afrikaans hoekom is a calque (i.e. loan
translation from English?

Low Saxon of Germany has waarüm ~ worüm [vo(ʊ̯)ˈrʏˑm], woso [vo(ʊ̯)ˈzoʊ̯]
(= "how so"), woför [vo(ʊ̯)ˈfœɐ] (= "what for"?), and waarvon ~ wovon ~
wovun [vo(ʊ̯)ˈfɔˑn] ~ [vo(ʊ̯)ˈfʊˑn] (= "what from").

It seems that words for "why" used to distinguish between at least the
following ideas:


   - "as a result of what (past) cause" (past)
   - "for what reason" (present-future)
   - "for what purpose/benefit" (future)


As semantic awareness of the differences disappeared, generally applicable
ones came into more common use (e.g. English "why").

For example, default "why" in the following languages seem to have
originally conveyed the sense of "for what (purpose/benefit"): Yiddish
פֿֿארװאָס (farvos), Catalan per què, Castilian por qué, Portuguese por que,
French pourquoi, Italian perché, Hebrew לַמָה (lamāh), Arabic limā ~ limāđā
~ lima (لِمَا . لِمَاذَا . لِمَ).

Any thoughts or insight, anyone?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA


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