LL-L "Literature" 2012.10.05 (02) [EN-SC]

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 06 October 2012 - Volume 02
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From: Sandy Fleming sandy at scotstext.org
Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2012.10.06 (01) [EN]

From: Mike Morgan mwmbombay at gmail.com

>  Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2012.10.05 (01) [EN]
>
> In connection with the discussion about haiku, I found this while
> poking around in the Scots corpus:
>
>
> http://www.scottishcorpus.ac.uk/corpus/search/document.php?documentid=922&highlight=ither
>
> 50 Haikus by Japanese Masters
> by David Purves
>

That's an excellent set in excellent Scots, though I'm not sure if the
Japanese masters have quite lived up to Ron's standards :)

Many of these are what Ron would call senryu, I think? Eg:

Ah think verra shame,
aw thir braw claes on me---
no ae steik ma ain.

Lady Sono-jo (1649-1723)

Even in ma ain
hame toun again, Ah sleep nou
lyker a traivlar.

Kyorai (1651-1704)

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Literature

Hi, Sandy!

OK, here's where I agree with you:

   1. Many or most of the works in the said Scots corpus are impressive.
   2. Yes, the two examples you gave are clearly *senryū *rather than *haiku
   *.

The terminology and rules/expectations are not of *my* making. They go back
centuries in Japan, where they grew out of a tradition of poetic games
(mostly New Year's games) from which the *haiku* and *senryū *parts, once
constituting a type of *pointe* in the game, remain till this days. The
game has rules, so *haiku* and *senryū *come with traditional rules, or
rather expectations. They have the same meter rules, but there are
different expectations regarding their contents.

Westerners are used to meter and rhyme schemes determining poetic category.
Some of the closest equivalents Western poetry has of East Asian poetry are
labels such as "elegy" or "ode," and this has counterparts in Old Greek,
Latin, Biblical Hebrew and Classical Arabic poetry as well. These
distinction are less determined by linguistic form than by content and
"mood."

Personally, I don't thinks this is a case of pedantry and purism on my
part. When I hear *"haiku*" (俳句) and *"senryū*" (川柳) I have certain
expectations.

Fortunately, modern Japanese poets (who have been exposed to Western
poetry) have been wrestling with similar issues and have eventually come up
with a label for a new, freer-style derivative of *haiku* and *senryū*: 現代の
俳句 *gendai no haiku *(literally "contemporary/modern haiku"). I suggest we
use this label for Western "haiku" to avoid unwarranted expectations. 西洋の俳句(
*seiyō no haiku* "Western haiku") might be even more appropriate.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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