LL-L "Literature" 2012.10.07 (02) [EN-SC]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 07 October 2012 - Volume 02
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From: Sandy Fleming sandy at scotstext.org
Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2012.10.05 (02) [EN-SC]

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Literature
>
> Personally, I don't thinks this is a case of pedantry and purism on my
> part. When I hear *"haiku*" (俳句) and *"senryū*" (川柳) I have certain
> expectations.
>
> Fortunately, modern Japanese poets (who have been exposed to Western
> poetry) have been wrestling with similar issues and have eventually come up
> with a label for a new, freer-style derivative of  *haiku* and *senryū*:
> 現代の俳句 *gendai no haiku *(literally "contemporary/modern haiku"). I
> suggest we use this label for Western "haiku" to avoid unwarranted
> expectations. 西洋の俳句 (*seiyō no haiku* "Western haiku") might be even more
> appropriate.
>
> Yes, the extent to which you would want to correct someone on the matter
would depend on the poet's intent and their success in carrying it out.

Similar things happen in the historical development of western poetry: from
sonnets, through non-rhyming sonnets, to poems of 14 lines being called
sonnets, to anything being called a sonnet if the poet thinks they've
captured the essence of a sonnet! But reading over the previous sentence I
notice that it's only the first kind that I naturally call a sonnet without
further qualification.

It still leaves the question of whether someone like Bashō followed these
conventions, or lived up to these expectations. If you take his first four
in this compilation, for example:

C’awa lat’s see
aw the rael flouers
o this dulefu warld!

The fishmongir’s staw---
hou cauld the deid lips
o the sautit bream.

The lairk lilts abuin
aw day an the haill day
is no lang aneuch.

Back at the lair ---
Ah bend ma sabbin
til the Back End wund!

it seems to me that there's no obvious indication of season until we get to
the fourth, and this seems par for the course for me with Bashō.

The seasonal potential in Scots is interesting: here, "Back End" is used
for autumn, which is rather negative, while you could also use "Hairst"
(harvest), which is (in most years, hopefully) positive.

What you're saying about the party game aspect is interesting, though. As
if the whole phenomenon has gone through stages from development by the
masters through codification for players to freeing for the modern masters.
But the idea of a sharp distinction between haiku and senryū still seems
somewhat artificial to me (feel free to enlighten me, of course!): the
desire to write haiku and the temptation to indulge in social commentary
seem to me to result in a fair overlap, giving poems that could be
classified in either way, for example from Bashō again:

Cum lat’s gae
an hae a look at the snaw
or we’r aw beirit.

Renga as a game is very popular in some Deaf circles now, I was quite
astonished when I first saw it live:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFq2o-y_yso

(I couldn't find any other way of including the film here? There seemed to
be no embedding code.)

For very short poems in sign languages, such as you might call haiku, it's
quite usual to try to sign the whole thing using a single handshape: this
adds to the poetic effect in some ways, and limits it in others.

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Literature

Mike Morgan wrote:

> "I suggest we use this label for Western "haiku" to avoid unwarranted
> expectations. 西洋の俳句 (*seiyō no haiku* "Western haiku") might be even more
> appropriate"
>
> 西洋俳句 *seiyō haiku* for short... although maybe 国際俳句* kokusai haiku*"international haiku" might be more appropriate, as NOT ALL non-Japanese
> haiku is written in the West, nor by westerners.
>

Point well taken!

BTW, I've tried haiku in Chinese. It seems too easy, feels less than
satisfactory.

post monsoon sun rays
> force their way through closed eyelids
> oh, for cloudy morns!
>
> 5-7-5, with reference to season and "cutting word" ;-)
>

Very nice! I like! I like! I like!

Sandy Fleming wrote:

Renga as a game is very popular in some Deaf circles now, I was quite
> astonished when I first saw it live:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFq2o-y_yso
>

Thanks! I seem to understand only a fraction (perhaps wrongly too), but I
can't get enough of watching it. I find it fascinating, beautiful, actually
touching, perhaps mostly because of the "body language," especially the
facial expressions.

(BTW, does letting one's head slump to one's right side at the end mean
"fall asleep" or "end of verse" or ...? ;-))

*Renga <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renga> *(*連歌*, Mandarin Chinese
pronunciation *lián**gē* 'linked verse/song', 'poetic dialog') is a
traditional Japanese poetic game (typically played during the New Year's
season) in which two or more players respond to each other, or rather
extend each other's poetic works, using various prescribed meters and other
types of rules that apply to their "turns." *Haiku *and *senryū* were
originally integral, required *renga* segments, but they have come to stand
on their own as well.

OK, all this is obviously quite East Asian, or "oriental" .... But it has
spread internationally, also into the Lowlands. Even though international
haiku (国際俳句* kokusai haiku* [thanks to our Mark]) looks as though it's
freeing itself from some of the original Japanese rules or restrictions,
non-Japanese poets dabbling with *haiku *and *senryū* would do well to
familiarize themselves with the original ideas and intents, which go far
beyond the 5-7-5 syllable rule. *Haiku* may initially appear "pretty" to
Westerners' perception. But their actual appeal, their poignancy, goes a
long way beyond mere prettiness. I believe that this *can* be achieved in
languages other than Japanese as well.

Thanks for sharing those Scots *haiku*, Sandy! I'm not sure I fully
understand "Back at the lair --- Ah bend ma sabbin / til the Back End
wund!" (I understand all the words, but not the overall thing.)

As for the rest, they seem to give me *kigo* (季語 "season word") clues:

C’awa lat’s see
> aw the rael flouers
> o this dulefu warld!
>

(For me: spring/summer.)

My (audacious) translation:

Come on now! Let's see
all the genuine flowers
of this gloomy world!

The fishmongir’s staw---
> hou cauld the deid lips
> o the sautit bream.
>

(I associate the cold season [esp. winter and early spring] with this.)

My (audacious) translation:

The fishmonger's stall—
how cold they are, the dead lips
of the salted bream!

The lairk lilts abuin
> aw day an the haill day
> is no lang aneuch.
>

(I'm thinking of spring and early summer.)

My (audacious) translation:

Lark warbling above—
from morning till evening
is not long enough.

Cum lat’s gae
> an hae a look at the snaw
> or we’r aw beirit.
>

(For me: (early) winter.)

Come on now! Let's go
and have a look at the snow!
Or we'll be buried.

What do you think, Sandy and others?

The *kigo* (季語 "season word") very much depends on each geographical region
and its season-based folkloristic tradition.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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