Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan

David Wright dcwright at prodigy.net.mx
Fri Nov 13 15:10:32 UTC 2009 

Te:machtia:ni, tlazohca:mati.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu] 
Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 10:49 p.m.
Para: David Wright
CC: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: RE: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan

David ihuan occequi nocnihuan,

> 1. You list -can (which I assume to be /ca:n/) as taking a possessive
> prefix. I haven't found any examples of this, although I admit I haven't
> searched very hard. If I see examples, I'll have to move this morpheme
from
> my list of locative suffixes to the "postposition" category. Can you give
me
> a couple of examples, preferably with references to early colonial
sources?
> (Modern sources won't do, because I'm focusing on central Mexican Nahuatl
> from 1521 to 1650.) I suppose your magic Nahuatl machine can make quick
work
> of this.
>

   This is an example of sloppy matrix construction and eagle-eyed reading!!
Thank you, David, for catching the error.  I can't say it won't happen 
again because it probably will.

   I will get back to the issue (and I don't mean "problem", as many 
mod speakers do nowadays) when I gather my data.

> 2. You include -ican, which I don't have on my table in either category.
The
> "x" in the fourth column means that it would be a postposition as I've
> defined this word. I just checked a stack of descriptive sources (Carochi,
> Lockhart, Andrews, Launey, Wolf, Karttunen, and Molina's Arte) and
couldn't
> find this postposition, unless it's something one would see inside of
> -i:campa, "behind/beyond," after removing the locative suffix -pa. I would
> like to add this morpheme to the table, but to do so I would have to know
> where it is found, what it means and if it has any long vowels. Can you
give
> me a hand with this?
>
> David
>

   I try to be extremely careful about vowel length in the notation of 
morphemes in the data, but I am sloppy in discussion.  "i:can" has a 
long vowel.  Andrews has it in the glossary of his first edition and 
Fran has "i:campa", which I think is reasonable for the bulk of the 
data.  There are some items which motivate separating  i:can  and  pa  
and I have included them in the list below.

   "niteicanihtoa" is one of them -- I gossip about someone, I mention 
someone behind his back.

   But "tlaicanhuiani" is my favorite, probably because of a personal
memory.
When I first met a very good friend of mine (a native speaker of 
Nahuatl), we walked along talking about Nahuatl stuff and I mentioned 
the word "nimitztoca" (I follow you) and he said that that wasn't how 
to say it.  He said (in my iconic memory moment), "nimitzicanhuia" ('I 
provide you with "ican" [behind]).
I didn't expect this to show up in the 16th century, since I considered 
it a later dynamic development in Nahuatl, but since "tlaicanhuiani" 
*does* appear, why are there not other similar forms?

All the best,

Joe


*i:can ***

  campa =tepetl i.  allende la sierra. <tepe:tl poss-i:can-pa1
    +poss.phr>. 71m1-2|
  cemicampa.  . <cem-i:can-pa1>. b.4 f.7 p.63|
  icampa.  . <poss-i:can-pa1>. b.2 f.3 p.76|
  icampa.  alas espaldas, o detras del; detras de algo. <poss-i:can-
    pa1>. 71m2-6|
  icampa , [i]-.  behind him. <poss-i:can-pa1>. b.5 f.2 p.179|
  icampa , i-.  behind him. <poss-i:can-pa1>. b.11 f.13 p.137|
  icampa , im-.  behind them. <poss-i:can-pa1>. b.2 f.1 p.50|
  icampa , m[o]-.  behind you. <poss-i:can-pa1>. b.1 f.1 p.27|
  icampa , te-.  behind others. <poss-i:can-pa1>. b.4 f.7 p.67|
  icampa =n.  detras de mi. <poss-i:can-pa1>. 71m1-8|
  icampa =no= [scribal error: note nicampa analysed as ni-icampa instead
    of n[o]-icampa: 71m2].  detras de mi. <poss-i:can-pa1
    +mis_analysis.3>. 71m2-6|
  icampa =te.  detras de alguno; o ensu ausencia. <poss-i:can-pa1>. 71m1-
    8|
  icampa =te=.  detras de algunos. <poss-i:can-pa1>. 71m2-6|
  icampa =tepetl.  allende la sierra; o detras dela sierra. <tepe:tl
    poss-i:can-pa1>. 55m-00|
  icampa =tla.  allende la sierra; atras; detras de algo; allende los
    montes; sierras; o puertos; tras. preposicion. <poss-i:can-pa1>. 55m-
    00|
  icampa =to.  detras de nosotros, o alas espaldas; hazia tras; trasera
    parte; traspera parte. <poss-i:can-pa1>. 71m2-19|
  icampa.  behind her; behind him; behind his back; behind it. <poss-
    i:can-pa1>. b.2 f.7 p.120|
  icampahuetz =o.  descargado assi  (assi is descargarse de algun
    oficio). <o:-i:can-pa1 huetzi-prt1>. 55m-5|
  icampahuetzi =n.  descargarse de algun oficio. <p11-i:can-pa1-huetzi>.
    55m-5|
  icampahuihtiuh =te.  zabullidor. <p52-i:can--v05b-prt1-ti1-yauh2
    aux14b>. 71m1-6|
  icampayotl =tla.  cosa de allende los montes, o sierras; parte
    trasera; trasera cosa. <poss-i:can-pa1-yo:tl1 tla7>. 71m2-21|
  icanhuiani =tla.  el que va tras otros, acompa¤ando los. <p51-i:can-
    v05b-ni1>. 71m2-21|
  icanihtoa =nite.  murmurar. <p11-p52-i:can-ihtahui-caus06>. 71m1-16|
  icanihtoa =nite=oniteicanito.  murmurar delos ausentes. <p11-p52-i:can-
    ihtahui-caus06>. 71m2-6|
  icanihtoani =te.  murmurador. <p52-i:can-ihtahui-caus06-ni1 +embed>.
    71m2-16|
  icanihtoh =te.  murmurador. <p52-i:can-ihtahui-caus06-prt1>. 71m2-16|
  icanihtoliztli =te.  murmuracion. <p52-i:can-ihtahui-caus06-liz
    +embed>. 71m2-16|
  ihcuilolli =icampa tla.  escriptura enlas espaldas; escriptura en las
    espaldas. <poss-i:can-pa1 p51-ihcuilli-v03a-caus06-l1>. 55m-8|
  ihcuilolli =tlaicampa tla.  escriptura enlas espaldas; escriptura en
    las espaldas. <poss-i:can-pa1 p51-ihcuilli-v03a-caus06-l1>. 55m-8|
  teicanihtoa =nite=oniteteicanito.  detraer, o murmurar de otros. <p11-
    p52-poss-i:can-ihtahui-caus06 +embed>. 71m2-16|
  tepetl =icampa in.  desotra parte de la sierra; dela otra parte dela
    sierra; tras la sierra. <poss-i:can-pa1 in tepe:tl +poss.phr>. 71m1-
    8|
  tlachia =nicampa ni.  mirar atras. <poss-i:can-pa1 p11-tlachiya
    +del.y>. 55m-14|
  tlahcuilolli =icampa.  escriptura en las espaldas dela carta o libro.
    <poss-i:can-pan-pa1 p51-ihcuilli-v03a-caus06-l1>. 71m2-6|
  tlaza =nicampa nic.  echar hazia tras; echar algo haziatras. <poss-
    i:can-pa1 p11-p33-tla:za>. 55m-7|

count 74





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