Malacachoa

Wed Mar 28 03:04:38 UTC 2012

Friends, tocnihuan:

My explanation comes, again, from words and forms used, spoken, in the
region of Cuetzalan Puebla.
Why not to take first the word "mallacat"?
We can divide the word into mall and acat. Mall(a)(i) sounds for me as
being related to the idea of rotating, spinning, twisting.

Remember: malina, malinalli.

Therefore we can think that mallacatl is no other thing but a stick that
spins, that rotates. Just like spindle in English and Spindel in German.
The translation of both words in Spanish ist not other but HUSO and this
one is precisely the Spanish translation for malacat.

For me, we can derivate from malacat the word malacachoa, where the t
becomes ch. Also the word malacachihui can have the same origin.

Malacachti (malacachtli) may mean “what has been rotated” e.g. a coil.

Malacachtic: something whose form comes from being rotated, i.e. rounded.

There is another word, the verbal form tayehualoya, vel. tlayahualoya. It
is related with “describing circles”

Therefrom we have:

Tayehualtic, vel tlayohualtic: round

Tayehual, vel. tlayahualli; a circle.

Related to this, we have e.g. the word: Santotayehualtiliz(ti): to carry a
Saint in Procession (to make circles with him in front of the church)

Rememeber “Primeros Memoriales”

ioa[n] tlayavaloloya, auh in tlalloca vevetqz teyacanaya valtenanamictivia
ynic tlayavaloloya : quiqueq[ue]chpanotihvi y[n] inteteuh.

My translation: and they walked describing circles. The old Tlaloc’s people
met face to face every people while walking in circle. They were carrying
their deities on their shoulders around their necks (while walking in
circles).

Niamechyoltlapalohua.
Tomas Amaya

El 22 de marzo de 2012 17:55, IDIEZ <idiez at me.com> escribió:

> Magnus,
>        So taking malacachihui/malacachoa, etc., as an example, what is the
> verb of origin and how does it get to malacachtli?
> John
>
> On Mar 22, 2012, at 4:10 PM, Magnus Pharao Hansen wrote:
>
> > My basic point that i keep trying to get across on the list is that it
> is necessary to take into account the phonological and morphological
> history of words when making etymologies. Very few of the people making
> etymologies here use anything more than Nahuatl dictionaries to do so -
> this is a shame because there is a lot of very good literature such as
> Canger and Dakin's historical studies that show what kinds of derivations
> are probable and possible and which aren't. This seems to me to be a clear
> example of this where we know something about the history of affixes and
> roots, which doesn't support the existence of a noun ma:lacachtli prior to
> the verb ma:lacachoa/malacachihui, but rather derved from it.
> >
> > best,
> > Magnus
> >
> > On 22 March 2012 18:04, Magnus Pharao Hansen <magnuspharao at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > John, I know there are those two nouns, I was explaining that they both
> historically come from the same verb form. I don't believe theycome from a
> noun malacachtli rather the noun malacachtli would have to come form the
> verbs historically. Malacachti would be the causative forms of the
> intransitive one of those, and yes the malacachtic adjective form would be
> derived from it - but they all come from original *ma:lacachiwa. I short I
> believe you are deriving the wrong way by going from noun to verb - rather
> inNahuatl it is almost always the case thatnouns are derived frm verbs and
> in this case there is compelling indicia that this is the case.
> >
> > You cannot derive it with malacach + ihui that suffix doesn't exist
> historicall but are two different suffices with different histories. The
> -wa/-wi is an historical ending the i is part of the precceding suffix.
> >
> > best
> > Magnus
> >
> >
> > On 22 March 2012 17:25, IDIEZ <idiez at me.com> wrote:
> > Magnus,
> >        In fact there is a ma:lacachihui and ma:lacachoa:. And what Una
> says makes sense. But you would have to start with an initial noun
> ma:lacachtli. This would be turned into a verb in two ways. One would be
> ma:lacachti (adding the verber "-ti") or ma:lacachtiya (adding both verbers
> "-ti" and "-ya"). The preterite form of either one would be ma:lacachtic
> and it would simultaneously work as an adjective/adverb. The other route
> would be to add the verber "-ihui" to the base noun, producing
> ma:lacachihui. The causative of this form would be ma:lacachoa:
> (originally, ma:lacachihua, like Una says). However, the "ch" is part of
> the original noun stem, not the beginning of "chihui>chihua". And I just
> noticed today that the root noun has a long "a" (ma:lacachtli). "malacatl"
> has all short vowels.
> > John
> >
> > On Mar 22, 2012, at 11:55 AM, Magnus Pharao Hansen wrote:
> >
> > > Listeros,
> > >
> > > Again Canger's Five Studies leads us on the way. She shows that the -oa
> > > ending comes from earlier -i:wa which means that there must have once
> been
> > > a verb pair called *malacachi:wa (transitive) and *malacachiwi
> > > (intransitive), these could be derived from malaca + chiwa "make/do"
> > > through a noun incorporation. Malacachtic is obviously derived from the
> > > verb.
> > >
> > > best,
> > > Magnus
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > >> From: IDIEZ <idiez at me.com>
> > >> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> > >> Cc:
> > >> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:07:06 -0600
> > >> Subject: [Nahuat-l] malacachtic, malacachihui, malacachoa
> > >> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
> > >>       How does malacatl get to malacachtic, malacachihui, malacachoa,
> if
> > >> indeed this is the root? In other words, how does the ch get in there?
> > >> John
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Nahuatl mailing list
> > >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> > >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Magnus Pharao Hansen
> > > PhD. student
> > > Department of Anthropology
> > >
> > > Brown University
> > > 128 Hope St.
> > > Providence, RI 02906
> > >
> > > *magnus_pharao_hansen at brown.edu*
> > > US: 001 401 651 8413
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Nahuatl mailing list
> > > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> > > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Magnus Pharao Hansen
> > PhD. student
> > Department of Anthropology
> >
> > Brown University
> > 128 Hope St.
> > Providence, RI 02906
> >
> > magnus_pharao_hansen at brown.edu
> >
> > US: 001 401 651 8413
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Magnus Pharao Hansen
> > PhD. student
> > Department of Anthropology
> >
> > Brown University
> > 128 Hope St.
> > Providence, RI 02906
> >
> > magnus_pharao_hansen at brown.edu
> > US: 001 401 651 8413
> >
>
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