xitomatl

[John Sullivan]

Piyali All,
1. There is no "tomahui". "-hua" is an intransitive verbing suffix.
2. The devoiced w is audible when pronounced by native speakers using "xiuh-". I don't know why it is lost in the hispanicized form, although it might have something to do with the fact that syllable-final w does´t occur in Spanish.
3. We all know that tomate refers to the little green tomatoes, and that jitomate refers to the plumper red tomatoes.
John

On Jul 24, 2013, at 6:48 AM, Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:

> One final problem I see, Susana, is that xitomatl is generally not green. tomatl are green; xitomatl are red, yellow even.
> 
> Ever curious,
> 
> Michael
> 
> Quoting Susana Moraleda <susana at losrancheros.org>:
> 
>> Thank you!!
>> so......... xitomatl = xihuitl + tomahua = xiuhtomatl =
>> intensely-swollen (thing)?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 24/07/2013 04:13, John Sullivan wrote:
>>> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>>> 	I think we have already discussed this on the list, but here goes.
>>> 1. tomatl is a morpheme, or at least its root, "toma-" is. You can
>>> add the intransitive verbing suffix, "-hua" to it to get "tomahua".
>>> 2. the noun "xihuitl", meaning "grass, green stone, turquoise". This
>>> is cited from Fran's dictionary where she adds "It also serves as a
>>> modifier for heat, indicating intensity" (324). So we put "xihuitl"
>>> into its combining form, "xiuh", add it to "tomato" and we get
>>> "xiuhtomatl".
>>> 	This "xiuh-" is also used in Huastecan Nahuatl to big things, so a
>>> "xiuhtlacatl" is a very big man.
>>> John
>>> 
>>> On Jul 23, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Michael McCafferty
>>> <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Quoting Susana Moraleda <susana at losrancheros.org>:
>>>> 
>>>>> Niltze nocniuhhuan,
>>>>> I would like to understand, once and for all, the real ethymology of
>>>>> the word XITOMATL. I've searched and searched, and found many
>>>>> different (and often absurd) sources, but three are the ones that are
>>>>> almost omnipresent.
>>>>> 
>>>>> XICTLI, navel
>>>>> XITOMA, peel off
>>>>> TOMAHUAC, fat
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This is a good question, Susana.
>>>> 
>>>> xi:ctli is not the source, as we'd have xi:ctomatl instead xi:tomatl.
>>>> 
>>>> Someone once told me that 'tomatl' came from toma:hua 'swell', but
>>>> I don't think so.
>>>> 
>>>> It seems the origin is the "peel" idea, and that there is a
>>>> morpheme with two allomorphs, xi:p- and xi:-, and they refer to
>>>> peeling. The toma is toma/tomi 'for something to loosen up'. Sounds
>>>> like people skinned these colorful xi:tomatl.
>>>> 
>>>> Michael
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

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