xitomatl

[David Wright]

P. S.

In Alexis Wimmer's online dictionary (http://sites.estvideo.net/malinal/nahuatl.page.html) we find instances of "xitomatl", without the /w/, in the Florentine Codex:

****************************************************************
.XITOMATL:
 xitomatl: 
(esp jitomate) est la tomate telle qu'on la connait communément en Europe. (La "tomātl" est une espèce plus petite). Launey II 296. 
Citée en Sah1,47. Sah 10,68. 
Citée dans une liste de ce qui pousse en abondance à Tlalocan. Sah3,47 = Launey II 296. 
 quitōcaqueh in tlaōlli in huauhtli in etl in āyōtl in chīlcotl in xitomatl , ils ont semé du maïs, de l'amarante, des haricots, des courges, du piment vert, des tomates - sembraron maiz, bledo, frijol, calabaza, 'chile' verde, 'jitomate'. Cron.Mexicayotl 38. 
 yōllohpiciltic iuhquin xitomatl , les graines sont minuscules comme (celles) de la tomate - the centers are tiny like tomato (seeds). 
Est dit de la figue de barbarie, azcanochtli. Sah11,124. 
 in cequintin xitomatl ahnōzo izhuatomatl in concāhuayah nāuhtetl , les uns laissaient des tomates ou de petites tomates au nombre de quatre - some left four large tomatoes, or else small ones. Il s'agit d'un acte rituel. Sah2,80.
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I can't find this word in Carochi's Arte.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de John Sullivan
Enviado el: miércoles, 24 de julio de 2013 10:23 a. m.
Para: Michael McCafferty
CC: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] xitomatl

Piyali All,
1. There is no "tomahui". "-hua" is an intransitive verbing suffix.
2. The devoiced w is audible when pronounced by native speakers using "xiuh-". I don't know why it is lost in the hispanicized form, although it might have something to do with the fact that syllable-final w does´t occur in Spanish.
3. We all know that tomate refers to the little green tomatoes, and that jitomate refers to the plumper red tomatoes.
John

On Jul 24, 2013, at 6:48 AM, Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:

> One final problem I see, Susana, is that xitomatl is generally not green. tomatl are green; xitomatl are red, yellow even.
> 
> Ever curious,
> 
> Michael
> 
> Quoting Susana Moraleda <susana at losrancheros.org>:
> 
>> Thank you!!
>> so......... xitomatl = xihuitl + tomahua = xiuhtomatl = 
>> intensely-swollen (thing)?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 24/07/2013 04:13, John Sullivan wrote:
>>> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>>> 	I think we have already discussed this on the list, but here goes.
>>> 1. tomatl is a morpheme, or at least its root, "toma-" is. You can 
>>> add the intransitive verbing suffix, "-hua" to it to get "tomahua".
>>> 2. the noun "xihuitl", meaning "grass, green stone, turquoise". This 
>>> is cited from Fran's dictionary where she adds "It also serves as a 
>>> modifier for heat, indicating intensity" (324). So we put "xihuitl"
>>> into its combining form, "xiuh", add it to "tomato" and we get 
>>> "xiuhtomatl".
>>> 	This "xiuh-" is also used in Huastecan Nahuatl to big things, so a 
>>> "xiuhtlacatl" is a very big man.
>>> John
>>> 
>>> On Jul 23, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Michael McCafferty 
>>> <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Quoting Susana Moraleda <susana at losrancheros.org>:
>>>> 
>>>>> Niltze nocniuhhuan,
>>>>> I would like to understand, once and for all, the real ethymology 
>>>>> of the word XITOMATL. I've searched and searched, and found many 
>>>>> different (and often absurd) sources, but three are the ones that 
>>>>> are almost omnipresent.
>>>>> 
>>>>> XICTLI, navel
>>>>> XITOMA, peel off
>>>>> TOMAHUAC, fat
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This is a good question, Susana.
>>>> 
>>>> xi:ctli is not the source, as we'd have xi:ctomatl instead xi:tomatl.
>>>> 
>>>> Someone once told me that 'tomatl' came from toma:hua 'swell', but 
>>>> I don't think so.
>>>> 
>>>> It seems the origin is the "peel" idea, and that there is a 
>>>> morpheme with two allomorphs, xi:p- and xi:-, and they refer to 
>>>> peeling. The toma is toma/tomi 'for something to loosen up'. Sounds 
>>>> like people skinned these colorful xi:tomatl.
>>>> 
>>>> Michael
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

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