xitomatl

[Michael McCafferty]

Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> Piyali All,
> 1. There is no "tomahui". "-hua" is an intransitive verbing suffix.


This is simply not true, John. Both exist, as does a reflexive form 
with tomahua.


> 2. The devoiced w is audible when pronounced by native speakers using
> "xiuh-". I don't know why it is lost in the hispanicized form,
> although it might have something to do with the fact that
> syllable-final w does´t occur in Spanish.

I can't buy this explanation. Can you send me a sound file that shows this?


> 3. We all know that tomate refers to the little green tomatoes, and
> that jitomate refers to the plumper red tomatoes.

Then, why are we calling the big red ones "green".

Michael


> John
>
> On Jul 24, 2013, at 6:48 AM, Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:
>
>> One final problem I see, Susana, is that xitomatl is generally not
>> green. tomatl are green; xitomatl are red, yellow even.
>>
>> Ever curious,
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> Quoting Susana Moraleda <susana at losrancheros.org>:
>>
>>> Thank you!!
>>> so......... xitomatl = xihuitl + tomahua = xiuhtomatl =
>>> intensely-swollen (thing)?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24/07/2013 04:13, John Sullivan wrote:
>>>> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>>>> 	I think we have already discussed this on the list, but here goes.
>>>> 1. tomatl is a morpheme, or at least its root, "toma-" is. You can
>>>> add the intransitive verbing suffix, "-hua" to it to get "tomahua".
>>>> 2. the noun "xihuitl", meaning "grass, green stone, turquoise". This
>>>> is cited from Fran's dictionary where she adds "It also serves as a
>>>> modifier for heat, indicating intensity" (324). So we put "xihuitl"
>>>> into its combining form, "xiuh", add it to "tomato" and we get
>>>> "xiuhtomatl".
>>>> 	This "xiuh-" is also used in Huastecan Nahuatl to big things, so a
>>>> "xiuhtlacatl" is a very big man.
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 23, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Michael McCafferty
>>>> <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Quoting Susana Moraleda <susana at losrancheros.org>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Niltze nocniuhhuan,
>>>>>> I would like to understand, once and for all, the real ethymology of
>>>>>> the word XITOMATL. I've searched and searched, and found many
>>>>>> different (and often absurd) sources, but three are the ones that are
>>>>>> almost omnipresent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> XICTLI, navel
>>>>>> XITOMA, peel off
>>>>>> TOMAHUAC, fat
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a good question, Susana.
>>>>>
>>>>> xi:ctli is not the source, as we'd have xi:ctomatl instead xi:tomatl.
>>>>>
>>>>> Someone once told me that 'tomatl' came from toma:hua 'swell', but
>>>>> I don't think so.
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems the origin is the "peel" idea, and that there is a
>>>>> morpheme with two allomorphs, xi:p- and xi:-, and they refer to
>>>>> peeling. The toma is toma/tomi 'for something to loosen up'. Sounds
>>>>> like people skinned these colorful xi:tomatl.
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>



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