idiez at me.com
Thu Sep 11 12:58:35 UTC 2014
Fran and Michel,
In the Huasteca there are two pairs:
1. pachihui and pachoa with a long a. Here pachihui is what happens to a piece of fruit that falls to the ground: it is bruised and sometimes it goes splat. Pachoa is to squash something (with your foot), like a bug or a piece of fruit that is on the ground.
2. pachihui and pachoa with a short a is the set that I believe is based on the pachtli plant. pachihui is for something to hang down, but at the same time, to fill out. Here is where “pachihui noyollo” comes in. Pachoa is to press on something, to make it bend down. When a hen sits on her eggs, it is quipachoa, and roosting in general is tlapachoa. mopachoa is to bend over, and I think this is what is meant when with the meanings of to get close to, and to examine (to bend oneself down with respect to….).
It is very appealing to me to combine the two ideas of hanging and filling out (plant refuse for stuffing, cushioning) into a single origin in the plant, pachtli.
On Sep 11, 2014, at 1:29 AM, M Launey <mlauney at wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Dear listeros
> John Sullivan’s mail reminded me of a pun based on vowel length, which I heard once in Milpa Alta. I only have a faint recollection of it since it was nearly 40 years ago and my working notebook is lost, but maybe a listero from Milpa Alta can check (and correct me if necessary). It was : "ximopacho huan ximopacho" « Acércate (o posiblemente : doblate) y saciate ». It seems to me that the first /a/ was long, and the second short, but I may be mistaken.
> So it seems that there are two pairs pachihui/pachoa, with long and short /a/, so couldn’t it be the case that there are two pachtic ? And how is the meaning related ?
> Btw, in Carochi (Book IV chap. 6 « De los mexicanismos ») you find with a short /a/ : "In opachiuhquê atlî, niman ic oyàquê" « En estando hartos de beber, luego se fueron », which would confort my recollection.
> There also is an apparently puzzling form at the end of the grammar, where he gives minimal pairs with applicative forms :
> "pachihuia nicno, 1a y 2a breues : assechole, espiole ; pàchihuia nicno, saltillo en la 1a y larga la 2a : me aprovecho de algo, como de medicina".
> But actually, pàchihuia is an incorporated form which has to be analyzed pà- (noun stem of pa’-tli « medicine ») + chihuia, applicative of chihua : i.e. « I use sthg. as a medicine » (Lockhart’s translation). Unfortunately, Carochi gives no minimal pair based on short vs. long /a/ with pachihui, pachoa or pachihuia. And how is the meaning « spy on s.o. » related to "become satiated" ?
> > Message du 10/09/14 20:02
> > De : "John Sullivan" <idiez at me.com>
> > A : "list nahuatl discussion" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
> > Copie à :
> > Objet : [Nahuat-l] pachtli2
> > And I forgot to add pachtic. 1. person or thing covered with insects. 2. tree or plant covered with leaves, flowers, fruit or parasitic vines. 3. place covered with insects. 4. food boiled down to a thick consistency.
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