[RNLD] basic audio recording gear

Tue Apr 2 02:29:57 UTC 2013

Hi there,

I responded privately to Margaret last week but I thought I should give the Zooms another vote publicly!

I can't recommend Zoom recorders highly enough. The H4N in particular is a very good device and -as someone said earlier-it has XLR external mic connectors. The H1s are nowhere near as sturdy or flexible but they are very reliable and easy to use. We bought a bunch of them specifically for a community oral history project last year. Most of the people doing the interviews were older and they had never used audio recorders before. There were no probs with the H1s - the built-in x/y condenser mics do a great job with a minimum of fuss. The only suggestion I can make is: don't monitor the whole recording because the H1 is very light and has a fairly flimsy 3.5 headphone jack - if you have headphones plugged in you will inevitably end up with movement noise. We told our interviewers to do a test recording with headphones only. Also, the tripod in the accessory pack is also very lightweight - it is a good idea to put a jumper or some thick cloth under it.

The Zoom H1, unlike the Olympus, can record up to 24 bit 96 kHz wav.

--
Marisa Harris
Manager, Audio Unit
Audiovisual Archive
Ph: +61 2 6261 4206 | Fax: +61 2 6261 4282 | www.aiatsis.gov.au<http://www.aiatsis.gov.au/>

From: Daryn McKenny [mailto:daryn at acra.org.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013 11:06 AM
To: r-n-l-d at lists.unimelb.edu.au; Margaret Carew
Subject: Re: [RNLD] basic audio recording gear

Margaret,

H1's are now down to $109, that price is hard to beat, you can get a small handy tripod to eliminate the handling noise which any low priced unit can get, or better still you can buy the Zoom H1 with Accessory pack at $119 which includes Tripod, case, wind sock, usb charger with cable and mic adaptor.

http://www.musoscorner.com.au/site/index.cfm?prodname=Zoom-H1-Portable-Digital-Recorder---FREE-Accessory-Pack&module=STORETIGERV2&pageMode=indiv&productID=202667&storepid=6#description

That's pretty hard to beat for price, accessories and features.

Regards

Daryn

Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc. Trading as:
Miromaa Aboriginal Language and Technology Centre

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From: Margaret Carew <margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au<mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au>>
Date: Friday, 29 March 2013 10:25 AM
To: Laura Robinson <lrobinson at linguistics.ucsb.edu<mailto:lrobinson at linguistics.ucsb.edu>>, "r-n-l-d at lists.unimelb.edu.au<mailto:r-n-l-d at lists.unimelb.edu.au>" <r-n-l-d at lists.unimelb.edu.au<mailto:r-n-l-d at lists.unimelb.edu.au>>
Subject: Re: [RNLD] basic audio recording gear

Hi
You're right about that Laura, I guess I meant to say more specifically that providing phones to use as recorders is tricky because of a range of reasons. I wouldn't want to be didactic about how devices are used and Im not overlooking the nuances of interaction and personal responsibility involved in providing project equipment for independent use. This is why Im trying to strike the right balance between quality and budget!

Perhaps 'quarantine' has the wrong connotations, bad word choice on the fly
Cheers Margaret

On 29/03/2013, at 4:35 AM, "Laura Robinson" <lrobinson at linguistics.ucsb.edu<mailto:lrobinson at linguistics.ucsb.edu>> wrote:

Margaret,
To follow up on the idea of audio recorders being "quarantined":
"So I'm looking to introduce devices that only record audio, because
these are quarantined in a sense, less likely to be used for other
things."
I have found that people have figured out how to turn a dedicated
audio recorder (a cheap Olympus device, in this case) into a sort of
mp3 player, simply by recording (non-traditional) music and then
playing it back over the built-in speaker. There may be no device that
is quarantined in the sense you are looking for if the users are
clever with technology.
Cheers,
Laura
--
Laura C. Robinson
Visiting Assistant Professor
Department of Linguistics
University of California, Santa Barbara
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Anna Luisa Daigneault
<annaluisa at livingtongues.org<mailto:annaluisa at livingtongues.org>> wrote:
Just to respond about Olympus recorders, our team been using Olympus LS-10
and Olympus LS-10s digital audio recorders for the past 5 years and they are
the best recorders we have been able to find (we have tried many many
different brands and models). The price has come down, and now they are $179
USD, which is still expensive but they last a long time, are produce very
high-quality industry-standard recordings, better than most phones. Easy to
use, excellent microphone, perfect for hand-held use or on a tripod, and the
devices are good for rugged environments. I can't recommend them more!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=887058&is=REG&Q=&A=details
Anna Luisa
--
Anna Luisa Daigneault, M.Sc
Development Officer & Latin America Projects Coordinator
Enduring Voices Project | Voces Duraderas
Living Tongues Institute for Endangered Languages
Twitter: @livingtongues
Archivo Digital de la Memoria Yanesha | Arr Añño'tena Poeñotenaxhno Yanesha
www.yanesha.com<http://www.yanesha.com>
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 9:51 AM, Paul Trilsbeek <Paul.Trilsbeek at mpi.nl<mailto:Paul.Trilsbeek at mpi.nl>>
wrote:
Hello all,
Generally I would advise strongly against buying a dictation device or
"voice recorder", even though this particular Olympus WS-812 model does
record uncompressed 16 bit 44.1 kHz audio. Olympus do have a range of very
decent and durable audio recorders, the LS series:
http://www.olympus.co.uk/site/en/a/audio_systems/audio_recording/fields_of_interest/high_end_music_recording/index.html
I'm not sure how much they cost in Australia at this point but the
simplest models are not that expensive. We have a large number of the LS-10
model (now discontinued) at MPI and they have proven to be reliable in the
field and make good quality recordings.
We also have a few Zoom H4n recorders, they can also be recommended but
are indeed more expensive and a bit heavier. They do accommodate the
professional style XLR connectors as Steffen mentioned.
This particular website compares (and sells) various compact audio
recorders (as well as dictation devices / voice recorders, so you should
ignore those!). They've made recordings with several different devices at
the same time so you can directly compare their recording quality. The site
is in German but with the help of Google Translate I guess you can make some
sense of it:
http://www.audiotranskription.de
Best regards,
Paul
On Mar 28, 2013, at 9:59 , 3/28/13, Steffen Haurholm-Larsen
<shaurholml at gmail.com<mailto:shaurholml at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Margaret,
I am not familiar with the Olympus products other than to say that I
have never heard language documentation experts / organizations recommend
them, whereas with the Zoom h4n and h1 I have. Personally I have good
experience with the h4n but as I understand it is both above your budget
range and in addition relatively heavy compared to the weight of both Zoom
h1 and what I imagine for the Olympus. On of the major differences between
the small ones you are talking about and recorders like the h4n is that the
latter has xlr-plugs which allows you to connect it to high end external
microphones.
For my next field season I am planning for the following (compromise)
setup for natural speech recording: Zoom h1 with a headset style dynamic
cardioid external microphone: the h1 will fit in virtually anybody's trouser
pocket and the headset mic will follow the movement of the mouth as it is
attached to the head of the speaker; this guarantees a constant distance
from mic to sound source which is a big plus for any recording I think, and
it allows the speaker more freedom of movement than a heavier table top
setup would Also, the setup is so light weight that it's presence is
minimally intrusive. The kind of headset mic you choose will again depend on
you budget, but you should go for a cardioid mic - a condenser mic would be
best but for this kind of setup you will probably have to settle for a
dynamic (no external power).
Best,
Steffen Haurholm-Larsen
Doktorand
Universität Bern, Schweiz
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 3:17 AM, Mat Bettinson <mat at plothatching.com<mailto:mat at plothatching.com>>
wrote:
Margaret,
"Providing new phones is also tricky because, they are phones, and get
used as such, and this would cycle back into the private domain. So I'm
looking to introduce devices that only record audio, because these are
quarantined in a sense, less likely to be used for other things."
This is a valuable insight, thanks for that. We have been looking at
providing new phones. Without SIM cards, so they don't really do anything
else *. That said, the general point about dedicated recorders being
"quarantined", virtually symbolic of the programme they are used for, is
certainly well taken. Food for thought.
* There is some interest from researchers in using connected phones (Eg.
with SIM cards) to record dialogue between people located remotely. Seems
questionable ethics wise to me but I may be missing a trick.
On 28 March 2013 12:53, Margaret Carew <margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au<mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au>>
wrote:
Hi
This is really interesting -  the BOLD website that I am familiar with
is a bit old now, so I wasn't up to date with these developments.
I know people who use their own phones to record for their own purposes,
especially at ceremonies . What we are trying to do is extend this practice,
and to introduce the notion of 'best practice'. This means recording the
best quality, recording basic metadata and contributing recordings so that
they can be curated and archived (also potentially used for other things
such as linguistic analysis and resource development).
Extending the current use of phones by promoting physical add ons such
as microphones seems at first glance, a bit tricky. There are a few reasons
for this, most related to the complex role that phones play in interpersonal
communication (worth its own study).  To curate the material means accessing
people's private phones which is fraught. Providing new phones is also
tricky because, they are phones, and get used as such, and this would cycle
back into the private domain. So I'm looking to introduce devices that only
record audio, because these are quarantined in a sense, less likely to be
used for other things. Part of what we are trying to do is raise the profile
of language documentation in North-Central Arnhem Land, a place where there
is a lot of local concern about language change, but no language centre and
few structured efforts at community based documentation work in  recent
years. Providing kits identified for language and cultural documentation is
one strategy towards this.
Regards
Margaret Carew
Project Linguist
Desert Peoples Centre, Alice Springs
Research, Teaching and Learning Division
Batchelor Institute of Indigenous Tertiary Education
tel: 08 8951 8344 | fax: 08 8951 8311
email:
margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au<mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au><mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au>  |
www.batchelor.edu.au<http://www.batchelor.edu.au/>
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From: Mat Bettinson <mat at plothatching.com<mailto:mat at plothatching.com><mailto:mat at plothatching.com><mailto:mat at plothatching.com%3e>>
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 12:27:35 +1100
To: staff BIITE
<margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au<mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au><mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au><mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au%3e>>
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Subject: Re: [RNLD] basic audio recording gear
Margaret,
I can't recommend a cheap digital recorder of the type you mention,
other than suggesting a different class of device, particularly since you
mentioned BOLD:PNG.
As you may or may not know, BOLD:PNG moved on to using inexpensive
mobile phones and a custom Android application. 'Moved on' perhaps unfairly
suggests an upgrade with no drawbacks but that's probably not the case.
Steven Bird and Florian Hanke are on the pointy end of the project and may
correct this categorisation.
Using mobiles seems to be an excellent way to record certain genres such
as narratives but clearly aren't as suitable for having a third person
record dialogue between other interlocutors. Well, one can do that with a
phone too but it requires using an external microphone and interfacing
decent microphones to mobile phones is not exactly common.
I've been trying out add-on microphones to mixed success. There's no
technical impediment. Last year I rigged up a Sure SM57 microphone to an
Android smartphone with excellent results. I've yet to try it on a
directional boom-style condenser microphone. I did get poor results with one
or two models of super cheap Android phones but great results with a Huawei
U8150, about $70 delivered on ebay.
I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this. Do you think,
assuming the quality is up to scratch, that using phones with and without
add-on microphones would be suitable for your work?
Having some visibility on concerns and requirements in this regard would
be quite helpful in my research. I'd also like to make some recordings
available to back up claims about recording quality.
Additionally, mobile phones running interactive applications obviously
provide considerable other benefits. Not the least automatic recording of
meta data, synching of recordings wirelessly and of course the whole
re-speaking aspect of BOLD as implemented in Bird&Hanke's Aikuma application
(which is on Google Play right now).
I hope I haven't overstepped with this. I'm sure someone else will come
up with a more practical here and now suggestion.
On 28 March 2013 11:22, Margaret Carew
<margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au<mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au><mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au><mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au%3e>>
wrote:
Hi
I'm looking to buy a number of audio recorders for a project, working to
a similar concept to BOLD:PNG
http://www.boldpng.info/
The idea being that the recorders are provided to a few key people who
then record independently, and recordings are fed back into the central
project for curation (by me working with the team).
Budget is limited, and the cheaper the unit, the more we can buy. so I'm
looking at either Olympus WS-812 or the Zoom H-1, both priced under AUD$150.
Does anyone have any thoughts? I'm concerned the zoom unit might be
flimsy.
Thanks
Margaret Carew
Project Linguist
Desert Peoples Centre, Alice Springs
Research, Teaching and Learning Division
Batchelor Institute of Indigenous Tertiary Education
tel: 08 8951 8344 | fax: 08 8951 8311
email:
margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au<mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au><mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au><mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au<mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au><mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au%3e%3cmailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au%3cmailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au%3e>>
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--
Regards,
Mat Bettinson
--
Regards,
Mat Bettinson
--
Mange venlige hilsener,
Steffen
Paul Trilsbeek
Archive Manager
The Language Archive
Max Planck Institute for Psycholinguistics
Wundtlaan 1
6525XD Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 24 3521203
Fax +31 24 3521213

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