Name for the Western Rgyalrong languages

Thu Nov 21 05:28:28 UTC 2013

Dear 云帆，

I am Gyu Lha. Sorry your my delayed reply. I've been having some rough
times with my new college life, so things are a little stressful.

Anyway, I of course heard about you from my professor Scott Delancey at
University of Oregon and I read your papers on Eri Township. I am a
freshman at the University of Oregon and I am adjusting to life in US as
well.

I am not sure if you know, but I am from a village called Siyuewu that is
close to where you did your research. I am very excited to learn that
someone is documenting the Lavrung language.

I am looking forward to hearing from you.

Best,
Gyu Lha

2013/11/21 云帆赖 <canonnier at gmail.com>

> Dear Guillaume and all,
>
> Thanks for supporting khroskyabs.
> khroskyabs is pronounced [tʂʰoscæ] or [tʂʰoscæv] by Wobzi speakers.
>
> Is G.yu Lha in the list? Guillaume, could you let me know her email
> address? I think it would be helpful for me to get in touch with her.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Yunfan
>
>
> 2013/11/20 Guillaume Jacques <rgyalrongskad at gmail.com>
>
>> Dear Jesse and all,
>>
>>
>>  pronounced by my Rilong consultant) [rəsɲilonba], [lonba] of course is
>>> valley, and [rəsɲi] is an alternative loconym for the valley that runs
>>> along the Xianshui River, so the Daofu valley. I am still working on the
>>> etymology, but that’s all I have for now. However, my consultant told me
>>> that she would never say [rəsɲiske].
>>>
>>
>> This is an interesting information. I would really like to know where
>> this name comes from.
>>
>>
>>> 2. Although the proper Tibetan spelling is rTau, sTau is easy to
>>> “derive” from the Tibetan spelling. Most Tibetans pronounce it as [tawu] or
>>> similarly. There are many herders in the grasslands that also pronounce it
>>> as [stawu]. Conversely, many Tibetans that I have talked to, some living
>>> inside Daofu and others not, have spelled rTau as sTau!
>>>
>>
>> Yes, since the languages of the group clearly distinguish between rt- and
>> st-, if they pronounce this placename with a st-, the actual pronunciation
>> should have precedence over the standard Tibetan spelling.
>>
>> Maybe we can keep Stau for the language variety (mainly) spoken in Rtau
>> county; even if some villages outside of the county speak a similar
>> language, this is not a damaging problem. It is very difficult to come up
>> with non-ambiguous names that perfectly reflect the language situaiton. For
>> instance, the name Japhug is not the best solution for designating the
>> language I am studying. These people call themselves kɯrɯ and their
>> language kɯrɯskɤt, and the name Japhug tɕɤpʰɯ or tɕʰɤpʰɯ (both
>> pronunciatins are attested) designates the Gsarrdzong/Datshang area and
>> does not include Gdongbrgyad, whose real name is sɤŋo in Japhug. However,
>> people speaking Situ call them "Japhug" as a whole, and thus the name
>> Japhug is not that bad for designating specifically this area.
>>
>> For the subgroup of Rgyalrongic comprising Stau, I is important to take
>> time to as other native speakers of these languages whether 'Tre-Hor' is
>> fitting or whether it is appropriate; Horske is not specific enough in my
>> opinion (it could equally well designate the Horskad varieties in Tibet).
>> Another possibily would be Hor-Rgyalrong or Horpa Rgyalrongic.
>>
>> For Geshizha, the pronunciation appears to be rgefɕe, maybe reflecting
>> Dge.bshes instead of the spelling Dge.rtsa I have found elsewhere. This
>> language is clearly distinct from Stau, but I am not sure which name is
>> better.
>>
>> Khroskyabs seems to me a good alternative to Lavrung (what is the
>> pronunciation of this name in Wobzi?). I would like to know what Gyulha
>> thinks of it.
>>
>> For the Rgyalrong languages, there is little controversy, but I will
>> still take some time to discuss existing names. I think it is obvious to
>> everybody that Chinese-based place names like Chabao, Caodeng or Ribu are a
>> bad idea: they poorly reflect the local pronounciation (being transmitted
>> through the filter of Sichuan Mandarin plus Standard Mandarin plus English)
>> and are unable to represent the local consonant clusters.
>> Yet, for Situ I think that the Chinese name is the best solution, because
>> this language is spoken on a huge area and does not appear to have a native
>> or Tibetan name distinguish it as a whole from the northern Rgyalrong
>> languages. So Situ is perhaps the only choice we have to encompass the
>> whole area (the Tibetan equivalent would be rgyal bzhi or something, but it
>> is not a good idea to invent a name that nobody understands). Japhug (and
>> Tshobdun, Tawi and Zbu) people call the Situ speakers "roŋba" to
>> differentiate them from themselves (while calling themselves "roŋwa"...),
>> but this (as the autonym mentioned by Gyulha) is not specific enough to
>> serve as a language name, otherwise all languages of the area could be
>> called "rongba".
>>
>> For Japhug I provide a discussion above, and for Tshobdun I think there
>> is no problem.
>>
>> For Zbu, there are some issues. The Tibetan name of the area Rdzong'bur
>> seems to me to be made up/recent, while the local Rgyalrong name Zbu is
>> known by everybody. It is not a perfect name, as this language is spread
>> over Rdzong'bur and Tawi areas in Mbarkhams and neighbouring areas of
>> Ndzamthang, but the alternative proposed by Jackson Sun, the name ɕoʁu in
>> Tshobdun designating speakers of Zbu and latinized as "Showu", does not
>> seem very appealing to me. Maybe Zbu-Tawi would be better to include all
>> subvarieties?
>>
>> Concerning the capitalization, in former publications I used to write
>> rGyalrong and rTau etc but now I believe that this is useless and that we
>> should keep the standard capitalization: Zev is right abou that (and
>> several Tibetologists have independently pointed out that they did not like
>> this practice either).
>>
>> If some of you have contacts with Stau/Hor or Lavrung/Khroskyabs speaking
>> areas, don't hesitate to contact your friends, ask their opinion, and post
>> it on the list (you can even post the original message in the local
>> language in IPA transcription or in Tibetan translitteration - there is no
>> requirement to write exclusively in English on this list, all languages of
>> Western Sichuan are allowed).
>>
>> Guillaume
>>
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume Jacques
>> CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO
>> http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques
>> http://himalco.hypotheses.org/
>> http://panchr.hypotheses.org/
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> མེས་རྒྱལ་གྱི་མེ་ཏོག།
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-- 
G.yu Lha

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