Name for the Western Rgyalrong languages

Thu Nov 21 06:26:05 UTC 2013

My address is abayina at gmail.com


2013/11/21 yina jody <abayina at gmail.com>

> Dear 云帆，
>
> I am Gyu Lha. Sorry your my delayed reply. I've been having some rough
> times with my new college life, so things are a little stressful.
>
> Anyway, I of course heard about you from my professor Scott Delancey at
> University of Oregon and I read your papers on Eri Township. I am a
> freshman at the University of Oregon and I am adjusting to life in US as
> well.
>
> I am not sure if you know, but I am from a village called Siyuewu that is
> close to where you did your research. I am very excited to learn that
> someone is documenting the Lavrung language.
>
> I am looking forward to hearing from you.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
> Gyu Lha
>
>
> 2013/11/21 云帆赖 <canonnier at gmail.com>
>
>> Dear Guillaume and all,
>>
>> Thanks for supporting khroskyabs.
>> khroskyabs is pronounced [tʂʰoscæ] or [tʂʰoscæv] by Wobzi speakers.
>>
>> Is G.yu Lha in the list? Guillaume, could you let me know her email
>> address? I think it would be helpful for me to get in touch with her.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Yunfan
>>
>>
>> 2013/11/20 Guillaume Jacques <rgyalrongskad at gmail.com>
>>
>>> Dear Jesse and all,
>>>
>>>
>>>  pronounced by my Rilong consultant) [rəsɲilonba], [lonba] of course is
>>>> valley, and [rəsɲi] is an alternative loconym for the valley that runs
>>>> along the Xianshui River, so the Daofu valley. I am still working on the
>>>> etymology, but that’s all I have for now. However, my consultant told me
>>>> that she would never say [rəsɲiske].
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is an interesting information. I would really like to know where
>>> this name comes from.
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2. Although the proper Tibetan spelling is rTau, sTau is easy to
>>>> “derive” from the Tibetan spelling. Most Tibetans pronounce it as [tawu] or
>>>> similarly. There are many herders in the grasslands that also pronounce it
>>>> as [stawu]. Conversely, many Tibetans that I have talked to, some living
>>>> inside Daofu and others not, have spelled rTau as sTau!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, since the languages of the group clearly distinguish between rt-
>>> and st-, if they pronounce this placename with a st-, the actual
>>> pronunciation should have precedence over the standard Tibetan spelling.
>>>
>>> Maybe we can keep Stau for the language variety (mainly) spoken in Rtau
>>> county; even if some villages outside of the county speak a similar
>>> language, this is not a damaging problem. It is very difficult to come up
>>> with non-ambiguous names that perfectly reflect the language situaiton. For
>>> instance, the name Japhug is not the best solution for designating the
>>> language I am studying. These people call themselves kɯrɯ and their
>>> language kɯrɯskɤt, and the name Japhug tɕɤpʰɯ or tɕʰɤpʰɯ (both
>>> pronunciatins are attested) designates the Gsarrdzong/Datshang area and
>>> does not include Gdongbrgyad, whose real name is sɤŋo in Japhug. However,
>>> people speaking Situ call them "Japhug" as a whole, and thus the name
>>> Japhug is not that bad for designating specifically this area.
>>>
>>> For the subgroup of Rgyalrongic comprising Stau, I is important to take
>>> time to as other native speakers of these languages whether 'Tre-Hor' is
>>> fitting or whether it is appropriate; Horske is not specific enough in my
>>> opinion (it could equally well designate the Horskad varieties in Tibet).
>>> Another possibily would be Hor-Rgyalrong or Horpa Rgyalrongic.
>>>
>>> For Geshizha, the pronunciation appears to be rgefɕe, maybe reflecting
>>> Dge.bshes instead of the spelling Dge.rtsa I have found elsewhere. This
>>> language is clearly distinct from Stau, but I am not sure which name is
>>> better.
>>>
>>> Khroskyabs seems to me a good alternative to Lavrung (what is the
>>> pronunciation of this name in Wobzi?). I would like to know what Gyulha
>>> thinks of it.
>>>
>>> For the Rgyalrong languages, there is little controversy, but I will
>>> still take some time to discuss existing names. I think it is obvious to
>>> everybody that Chinese-based place names like Chabao, Caodeng or Ribu are a
>>> bad idea: they poorly reflect the local pronounciation (being transmitted
>>> through the filter of Sichuan Mandarin plus Standard Mandarin plus English)
>>> and are unable to represent the local consonant clusters.
>>> Yet, for Situ I think that the Chinese name is the best solution,
>>> because this language is spoken on a huge area and does not appear to have
>>> a native or Tibetan name distinguish it as a whole from the northern
>>> Rgyalrong languages. So Situ is perhaps the only choice we have to
>>> encompass the whole area (the Tibetan equivalent would be rgyal bzhi or
>>> something, but it is not a good idea to invent a name that nobody
>>> understands). Japhug (and Tshobdun, Tawi and Zbu) people call the Situ
>>> speakers "roŋba" to differentiate them from themselves (while calling
>>> themselves "roŋwa"...), but this (as the autonym mentioned by Gyulha) is
>>> not specific enough to serve as a language name, otherwise all languages of
>>> the area could be called "rongba".
>>>
>>> For Japhug I provide a discussion above, and for Tshobdun I think there
>>> is no problem.
>>>
>>> For Zbu, there are some issues. The Tibetan name of the area Rdzong'bur
>>> seems to me to be made up/recent, while the local Rgyalrong name Zbu is
>>> known by everybody. It is not a perfect name, as this language is spread
>>> over Rdzong'bur and Tawi areas in Mbarkhams and neighbouring areas of
>>> Ndzamthang, but the alternative proposed by Jackson Sun, the name ɕoʁu in
>>> Tshobdun designating speakers of Zbu and latinized as "Showu", does not
>>> seem very appealing to me. Maybe Zbu-Tawi would be better to include all
>>> subvarieties?
>>>
>>> Concerning the capitalization, in former publications I used to write
>>> rGyalrong and rTau etc but now I believe that this is useless and that we
>>> should keep the standard capitalization: Zev is right abou that (and
>>> several Tibetologists have independently pointed out that they did not like
>>> this practice either).
>>>
>>> If some of you have contacts with Stau/Hor or Lavrung/Khroskyabs
>>> speaking areas, don't hesitate to contact your friends, ask their opinion,
>>> and post it on the list (you can even post the original message in the
>>> local language in IPA transcription or in Tibetan translitteration - there
>>> is no requirement to write exclusively in English on this list, all
>>> languages of Western Sichuan are allowed).
>>>
>>> Guillaume
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Guillaume Jacques
>>> CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO
>>> http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques
>>> http://himalco.hypotheses.org/
>>> http://panchr.hypotheses.org/
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> མེས་རྒྱལ་གྱི་མེ་ཏོག།
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> G.yu Lha
>


-- 
G.yu Lha

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