[Rgyalrong] Minyagic

[Guillaume Jacques]

The term I proposed "Macro-Gyalrongic" might indeed be felt a bit too
"Gyalrong-suprematist" by some scholars. I have nothing against your
Minyagic / 弥药语支.

BTW: what is your take, at the present moment, on the "Tangut-Menya-Mbo"
cluster? Would it be part of Gyalrongic? (I think Menya is not very
Stau-looking, unlike Tangut and possibly Mbo).

2016-09-14 14:38 GMT-07:00 Xun Gong <minus273cn at gmail.com>:

> Hi all,
>
> I would first like to thank Zev, our gracious host, for this wonderful
> reunion. Among the marvelous influences the workshop has had on me,
> I'm now taking Greek yogurt + fruits for breakfast :)
>
> It's for continuing a thought I had been having in the last day's
> lunch, when we were discussing about the best way to replace the word
> "Qiangic": how about naming the cohesive core of what is called
> Qiangic languages Minyagic? The classificatory idea is same as Sun
> Hongkai's Northern Qiangic or Guillaume's Macro-Rgyalrongic –
> Rgyalrongic, Rmaic (Qiang) plus the Tangut-Menya-Queyu-'Bo cluster,
> and possibly Prinmi.
>
> I'm personally OK with the term Qiangic, but those who oppose it have
> solid motivations, so we assume for this discussion that the word
> needs to be replaced. In such a case, here are the reasons why I think
> Minyagic is the best replacement for Qiangic.
>
> 1) At least three lects of the group have the autonym /mi-nyag/:
> Nyagrong Minyag, Menya/Minyag and Tangut. The smallest genetic group
> that includes all three is clearly Northern Qiangic/Macro-Rgyalrongic.
>
> 2) According to the New History of Táng, /mi-nyag/ designates the
> kinsfolk of the founding population of the Xīxià Empire who stayed in
> Northern Sichuan.
>
> 以其地為懿、嵯、麟、可三十二州，以松州為都督府，擢赤辭西戎州都督，賜氏李，貢職遂不絕。於是自河首積石山而東，
> 皆為中國地。後吐蕃浸盛，拓拔畏逼，請內徙，始詔慶州置靜邊等州處之。地乃入吐蕃，其處者皆為吐蕃役屬，更號弭藥。
>
> tr:
> The land (belonging to the Tanguts under Tuòbá Chìcí) are divided (by
> the Chinese government) into 32 prefectures: Yì, Cuō, Lín, Kě, et
> cetera. (most of these prefectures were near the modern Mdzo·dge
> county), with the Superintendency [都督府] placed in the prefecture of
> Sōng [modern Zung·chu]. Chìcí was promoted as the Superintendent of
> the Western Róng Prefecture and bestowed the family name of Lǐ.
> Regular missions were sent since then. East of Héshǒu [Liángzhōu] and
> the Mountain of Jīshí [A·myes Rma·chen] are hence annexed as Chinese
> territory. Later, as the Tibetans gradually gained power, the Tuòbá
> became afraid of their pressure and asked the government to allow them
> to move inside (China proper). An order was given to the prefecture of
> Qìng to install the prefecture of Jìngbiān in order to accomodate
> them. Their original territory was annexed by Tibet. Those who stayed
> there were subjugated by Tibet and called since then the Mi-nyag.
>
> tl;dr:
> The Tanguts (dǎngxiàng) who went to Jìngbiān later became the Tanguts
> of the Xīxià state; those who stayed in what has become by then the
> Tibet Empire are called (in Chinese at least) Mi-nyag.
>
> 3) The Tangut empire has a lot of prestige value. Rma nationalists, in
> particular, have invented a Tangut-style Rma script (cf.
> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2012791391). I have seen Tangut-looking
> chūnlián's all over Wènchuān. It was in a bus so I cannot check if
> it's real Tangut or the Tangut-style Rma script, but it's clear that a
> Tangut connection is important for the Rma self-conception.
>
> 4) Mi-nyag is not offensive to a retrospective Tibeto-centric view of
> the history. It is important that Qiangic is designated by a name
> Tibetan enough that Tibetans can claim Qiangic-speaking peoples as
> Tibetan. The name Mi-nyag is perfect for this purpose.
>
> The speakers of Menya/Minyag and those of Nyagrong Minyag are already
> classified as Tibetans. The word "mùyǎ zàngzú" does not grate at all
> on an early 21th-century ear. The Xīxià Tanguts are also claimed by
> some as Tibetans
> (http://www.tibetcul.com/zhuanti/whzt/201101/25364.html).
>
> </reasons>
>
> Here are the reasons to have the word "Minyagic" handy in case a
> replacement is felt by everyone as necessary. In Chinese, the
> classicalizing spelling "弥药语支" can be used to distinguish it from 木雅,
> the Modern Menya language. Tangut is called 西夏语 anyway so there's no
> problem about that.
>
> I hope a "bonne continuation" for all and look forward to your ideas about
> it.
>
> Best wishes,
> Xun Gong
>
>
> --
> Xun GONG
>
> CRLAO, INALCO/EHESS, Paris
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>



-- 
Guillaume Jacques
CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO
http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques
http://himalco.hypotheses.org/
http://panchr.hypotheses.org/
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