textbook recommendation

Tue Aug 29 09:02:57 UTC 2000

Sorry for my late reply:

I suppose this article question matters a lot to the foreign ministry of (the)
Ukraine because they consider it the English language equivalent of the use of "na"
or "v" Ukraine in Russian. "Na" is the traditional way to put it, now considered
not pc, probably because of the easy etymology of the word Ukraine that is linked
to okraina, kraj etc. At least some Ukrainians feel that the usage "na" implies
Ukraine to be the periphery of Russia.

Dorothea Gieselmann

William Ryan schrieb:

> The two recent objectors to my message about the use of the English definite
> article in the name of the Ukraine have overreacted and apparently not read
> very carefully what I said.
>     I speak as a longtime and fervent believer in the cultural independence of
> the Ukraine and Belarus, with a good many friends of both nationalities, and
> happy memories of a visit to the Ukrainian Research Institute at Harvard. I am
> happy that those two lands have now achieved political independence (more or
> less) and am on record in several places as pointing out that the view of
> Russia as a continuum stretching from Kiev Rus to the USSR , as it appears
> in most Great Russian (and quite a lot of Western) historiography, is
> erroneous.
>     As I understand it from the press, the demand for removal of the English
> definite article came in fact from the Ukrainian foreign ministry. I can only
> imagine that they took this strange step as a result of representations from
> North American activists, since it can hardly matter much to them at home. Are
> North American Ukrainian nationalists like North American Irish nationalists,
> i.e. much more 'patriotic' than their counterparts back home (I speak as an
> occasional Irishman)?
>     The point I thought I had made is that the use of the definite article in
> English (and French, e.g. La France and German, e.g. die Schweiz) is not
> thought to be offensive in other placename contexts and in fact cannot by
> itself be offensive, as the analogues demonstrate, e.g. the Dutch do not object
> to The Netherlands (and are tolerant even of our sloppy and incorrect use of
> Holland). English speakers neither intend to offend nor perceive any grounds
> for offence in the use of the definite article - 'The Ukraine' it is simply the
> name which we have always used. And since neither Russian nor Ukrainian have
> articles the alleged offensive connotation cannot arise in those languages
> either.
>     The fact is that the English definite article cannot in any way suggest
> subordination to Russia (which I gather is the reason for all this) - but the
> word Ukraina certainly does suggest a peripheral status. It is therefore
> illogical to ban the use of the semantically blameless English article while
> keeping the semantically loaded noun. A new state name (my suggestion of Kiev
> Rus', though light-hearted, was not entirely frivolous) would solve that
> problem, although it would leave anglophone writers still with a problem of
> appropriate usage in writing in historical and geographical contexts before the
> adoption of the new state name - an awkwardness which has already arisen in the
> case of Belarus, where the appropriateness of Belarusian in medieval contexts
> is very dubious.
>     As a member of a minority in another multiracial community, I do not have
> to be told that the terminology of race is a subtle, often illogical, and fast
> changing area which has to be handled sensitively. But this is NOT about
> terminology of race - place names are not at all the same thing, the problems
> of usage are different, particularly in historical writing, and are subject to
> different pressures. If the perceived offence lies in the use of the definite
> article and nothing else then presumably this must apply to every language
> which has a definite article. Perhaps other participants in SEELANGS could let
> us know if the Germans are now also obliged to remove the article from die
> Ukraine and the French from lUkraine? In French in particular the definite
> article is widely used with names of countries; to leave them out would sound
> very odd and ungrammatical - has the Academie Francaise expressed an opinion?
> In fact, is what is perceived as politically correct in some US circles to be
> imposed as linguistically correct not only on the whole English-speaking world
> but also on all other countries as well? Now that really is culturally
> offensive!
> Will Ryan
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Professor W. F. Ryan, MA DPhil FBA FSA
> Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London)
> Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB
> tel: 020 7862-8940 [direct line]; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940.
> fax: 020 7862-8939; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940.
> The Warburg Institute's main switchboard number is 020 7862-8949
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
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