> [SEELANGS] sub-titles

Evgeny Steiner es9 at SOAS.AC.UK
Tue Apr 8 18:06:52 UTC 2008 

Well said, Will. But I suspect that some militant champions for PC wouldn't agree. Especially those who did not notice that the biggest target was not any racial or minority group at all but the mainstream Americans. 
I did not find 'Borat' very funny (not a great piece of cinema evidently), but it has some subtle points - not for the general audience, perhaps).

ES

-----Original Message-----
From: William Ryan <wfr at SAS.AC.UK>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:08:23 +0100
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

Menippean satire is therapeutic. A shared sense of outrage may break 
down barriers and reveal essentials perhaps?

Will Ryan


Sarah Hurst wrote:
> I think the film attempted to offend as many different racial and minority
> groups as it could - and succeeded!
>
> Sarah Hurst
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vardanyan, Ashot
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:47 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> Anyway, if it comes to my personal opinion, I was not very happy to hear my
> mother tongue in such a mean film. I had a feeling my language was
> associated with the humiliating plot of the content. Now, I think some Jews
> could have the same view.
>  
> Ashot
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on
> behalf of Evgeny Steiner
> Sent: Tue 08-Apr-08 10:02
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:24:36 -0800
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> It's nonsense if one is talking Hebrew, the other is replying in Armenian,
> and they are both pretending to be speaking Kazakh.
>
> Oh, I thought it was a rather cunning joke to make that Anti-Semitic
> simpleton to speak Hebrew. But possibly the authors of Borat had to be more
> considerate to those film critics to whom either Armenian or Hebrew sound
> like nonsense.
>
> ES
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Evgeny Steiner
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:45 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> "Really a nonsense language"???
> Sasha Baron-Cohen was talking good Hebrew.
>
> Evgeny Steiner
> Sainsbury Inst. for the Japanese Art
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:52:48 -0800
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> In Borat the two main characters are supposed to be speaking the same
> language to each other (ostensibly Kazakh). As it's really a nonsense
> language each actor just speaks in whatever foreign language he knows, with
> Sasha Baron-Cohen throwing in quite a few Polish words, I think. So it
> wouldn't really make sense to differentiate the subtitles and indicate that
> one actor is speaking Armenian.
>
> Sarah Hurst
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ashot Vardanyan
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:31 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> Dear Michele,
>
> My notes are somewhat different from what you want but might be of interest
> as well.
>
> I want to share my observation and impression on the language(s) and
> subtitles of two films âEUR" Russian âEURoePrisoner of MountainâEUR
> (âEURoeKavkazskii plennikâEUR) and American / British âEURoeBorat: cultural
> learnings of America for make benefit glorious nation of KazakhstanâEUR. In
> both films the non-Armenian viewer naively reckons s/he hears the same
> language from the characters as s/he reads the English subtitles.
>
> The scene of the former is set in the Russian North Caucasus, supposedly in
> Chechnya, the country that definitely has its own language. The filmmakers,
> however, run a unique trick: the local men and women speak in the main three
> languages of the entire Caucasus: Georgian, Azerbaijani, which is very
> similar to Turkish, and Armenian. There might be other Caucasian languages
> that I donâEUR(tm)t know; however, from the outset, it was unusual to hear
> Georgian between Abdul-Murat and his daughter, but later the idea of the
> producers became clear: they probably aimed at demonstrating the commonality
> of all Caucasians which is, in turn, very dissonant to truth. The entire
> Caucasus is a bundle of problems.
>
> Armenian, my language, is represented by its âEURoehamshenaâEUR dialect
> that is used by Armenians populating the Black Sea region. It appears only
> in the episode of the childrenâEUR(tm)s talk, when a boy asks Dina if it is
> already time for her to marry. It seems to me, this is also political. The
> filmmakers couldnâEUR(tm)t help knowing that Armenia and Russia are allies
> in all domains, whereas Georgia and Azerbaijan informally supported
> ChechnyaâEUR(tm)s insurgency and had other conflicts in their relations with
> Russia.
>
> In âEURoeBoratâEUR¦âEUR, Azamat Bagatov, the partner of the main character,
> speaks Armenian during all the span of the film. As a matter of fact, the
> person who stars for him is an American Armenian actor Ken Davitian. He uses
> the mixture of the Eastern and Western Armenian dialects. I donâEUR(tm)t
> remember what language Borat speaks, to the best of my memory, itâEUR(tm)s
> either / both Russian or / and Kazakh but itâEUR(tm)s definitely not
> Armenian. However, viewers donâEUR(tm)t know this and follow the subtitles
> being under the impression the characters sound the same language.
>
> âEUR¦The quality of this film is a different topic.
>
> Best,
> Ashot Vardanyan,
> University of Iowa.
>
>
> 04/06 17:25 "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>   
>> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
>>
>> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that
>> distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the
>> sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics?
>> Other?
>>
>> Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
>> Thanks
>>
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