Russian vs. American politeness (was RE: [SEELANGS] О потере чув =?UTF-8?Q?=D1=81=D1=82=D0=B2=D0=B0_=D1=81=D1=82=D0=B8=D0=BB=D1=8F_?=(Raia Rozina RAN))

[Paul B. Gallagher]

anne marie devlin wrote:

> The imperative in English is generally rude and has to be mitigated
> either syntactically (modality) or lexically (please). Russian
> mitigates differently. Aspect, person and tense can be employed.
> Think idi, idite and poshli. Such pragmatic structures are embedded
> in culture and as such are extremely difficult to acquire. I've been
> told that English speakers can sound like idiots in Russian and
> likewise Russians can sound rude in English due to pragmatic
> transfer. I used to enjoy listening to my Russian colleagues managing
> their classrooms - sadites', syadte or vse seli.

Yes. Another culture's politeness strategies often come across to the L2 
learner as quaint, silly, or peculiar. It's hard to accept them as 
normal. See below.

> I would be really interested to know if there has been any research
> into the use of the past as an imperative in Russian - and of course
> the thoughts of fellow seelangers. Pragmatics is an aspect of
> language that is often overlooked in teaching.

Koreans often ask rhetorical questions where we would use direct 
statements or commands:

After telling someone to leave: 안 가요? [Aren't you going?] instead of 
the repetitive command 가라니까! [Go, I say!], which is really harsh 
(compare the English "Are you still here?")

너 정말 이럴거야?
Are you really going to be like that?
(Don't be like that)

입 다물지 못해?!
Won't you shut up?
(Shut up already!)

고기 안먹어?
Aren't you eating your meat?
(Just eat your meat!)

내가 바보야?
Am I a fool?
(I'm no fool!/Who do you take me for?)

The pattern for phrasing polite commands as questions seems to be to use 
social expectations/duty ("shouldn't you do the appropriate thing?") 
rather than one's personal power ("I told you, now obey!") to demand 
compliance. When I first encountered these, they struck me as 
passive-aggressive.

Here are some denials, typically phrased as requests for proof or 
additional information:

내가 언제?
When did I?
(I did not!)

내가 왜(요)?
Why would I?
(I will not!)

무슨 소리야?
What are you talking about?
(No way!)

We do this last one, too.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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